The Role Playing Public Radio Forums
General Category => RPGs => : Wooberman February 24, 2010, 06:02:32 AM
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I'm considering the monumentous task of converting Rifts into a non-Palladium system.
My only issue is what system?
Any hints?
Btw if this does go through i'll do everything i can to broadcast the results so you guys can use them yourselves.
I'd really love it if anyone willing would playtest these rules too so I can clean it all up, purty like.
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I asked about something like this at one point and Ross said Palladium likes to chase people with lawyers. I'm unclear on alot of issues of "gaming law" as per the rights of companies regarding their ideas.
I'd be more than happy to help, provided there isn't a significant risk of legal pain.
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I asked about something like this at one point and Ross said Palladium likes to chase people with lawyers. I'm unclear on alot of issues of "gaming law" as per the rights of companies regarding their ideas.
I'd be more than happy to help, provided there isn't a significant risk of legal pain.
This would probably be classified under intellectual property law and I'm unsure the specifics. It would probably depend on who owns the copyrights to RIFTS at the moment and whether or not those copyrights have been / will be renewed.
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It's not even a matter of the law. It's a matter of time and money.
1. Fan posts Rifts conversion online.
2. Palladium sends lawyer nastygram (cease and desist) letter to fan, web host, and/or ISP.
3. Fan has to decide if this is worth the time and money to fight it in court, or if he should ignore it or just give up.
Fan conversions aren't worth the time and money to fight in court. Ignoring it is a valid option, as then Palladium has to decide if it's worth the time and money to actually go after the fan but you're basically calling the bluff of Kevin Siembedia, who is slightly crazy by all accounts. Giving up is the safest and easiest option so people do that.
If you make a Rifts conversion, host it off site. You can link to it here though.
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I thought there was a d20 version?
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I thought there was a d20 version?
hahahaha
no
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A ways back, I was involved in a group that published free serialized fiction online. An attempt was made, half jokingly, to post Heroes Unlimited stats for the major characters. We were told almost immediately by Palladium that they don't allow any derivative works, period, end of sentence.
Sure, they can't sue you for posting modified versions of the mechanics, but any term that's their copyright and original IP they can and will harass you about.
Besides, there are already plenty of people making adaptations and system fixes - I can name the Savage Worlds RIFTS adaptation and Doug Wall's "Better Than RIFTS" system off the top of my head - so why bother with another one?
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Why can't you make you RIFTS conversion, change all the names, and call it IFTS or STFIR?
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I'm not sure if its the same boat or not but I learned a lot of trademark law in a nut shell from the d6 generation pod cast ep 49. Talking about games workshop defending there logo and they interviewed a creator of army builder. Should check it out pretty informative.
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From what I've seen of Rifts, it seems that the rules are hopeless complicated, and the idea of class balance seem to be an anathema to the system (example: some classes start in mechs. Others get a plastic bag and several pieces of candy). Therefore, the easiest way to convert the system would probably be a rules lite kind of system, such as Fate, SotC modded slightly, or to just port the fluff to another system, and not worry much about the rules.
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From what I've seen of Rifts, it seems that the rules are hopeless complicated, and the idea of class balance seem to be an anathema to the system (example: some classes start in mechs. Others get a plastic bag and several pieces of candy). Therefore, the easiest way to convert the system would probably be a rules lite kind of system, such as Fate, SotC modded slightly, or to just port the fluff to another system, and not worry much about the rules.
Pretty much what i was thinking of. Its gonna be tough but I'm game!
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Update - The project is underway.
Progress is incredibly slow with an awful lot of re-reading.
But just so you know, it is happening.
Also, Fuck Palladium.
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Why do you want to make a conversion of RIFTS? Do you like the world-setting or is their some specific component of it that you really find interesting?
What is your actual motivation behind the project?
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Short answer - Love the setting, Detest the system. only one solution, transplant!
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I would suggest you start by isolating the parts you want to use personally first.
Pick a system you do like and are very familiar with as your conversion platform.
Then proceed to the basics - what is the core of how you play. If you are focused on combat, make sure you have a playable foundation, then tweak. Don't worry if it isn't perfect at first.
See if you can take some scenarios you have already played through in RIFTS (with the awkward rules) and see how the outcome was. Then try and take a similar situation from your familiar system and look at how it works, turn by turn, player by player. Don't be afraid to just choose the dice rolls - you want to know what the outcome will be to test for the variables. If your planned outcome isn't realized by your testing scenario, you need to go back and tweak it so that the outcome you desire is achieved.
It may seem a little strange, but you need to treat this like a project. You need to have objectives, and you need to have a plan. Then set small goals, day by day. For Wednesday, your goal is to write out which system you want to try to make the conversion for.
Then for Thursday/Friday, you want to write down what are the core things you want to start with. Small list. Keep it specific - such as pick one class/template/whatever and identify what are the key components of the class in RIFTS. What makes the class special, and why do you want to keep it.
If you sit down and spend some time up front, you can do this.
It gets a lot easier if you have other people helping you.
I have no interest in RIFTS, nor do I have any interest in learning it - but I am sure there are other people that do.
Maybe you could try using Google Wave to collaborate?
Just make sure you break it down into manageable chunks or you will find it very hard to get this done.
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Thanks buddy, thats really helpful.
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I am a recovering rifts player.
I used to run a HEAVILY modified version of the first edition rules but recently one of my players (who also loves the setting) was complaining about never really getting a feel for the real Palladium system so I decided to run a really simple game with a wafer thin narrative as a "exposure to the basic system". Trouble is... since we played last they released the Rifts Ultimate Edition (RUE) which has some very tiny changes to the game which I liked a whole whole lot.
They are pretty subtle... but this is the biggest one.
In RUE, you simply track your attacks left in a combat round and you keep looping through combat with everybody taking an action until all people are out of attacks. When you dodge you simple burn one of your remaining actions up. No more (as in the first edition) losing your NEXT ACTION crap which was hard to keep track of in any fight with more than two combatants. In addition to that. Once you burn up all your actions you can still dodge but it burns an action from NEXT ROUND. If you run out of actions for next round as well as the current round I interpret the rule to read you get to keep dodging for free but only "free" after you burn up all of next round.
Also, Ranged combat is nerfed a bit with there being a reduction in strike bonuses (you no longer add all your hand to hand strike or PP bonus to it) which sort of encourages more melee fighting. Its a house rule... but I allow people to parry a ranged weapon when they are adjacently engaged in melee with the shooter.
In my revisit I decided to still deny buddy's exposure to the old First Edition and bought RUE. I liked it a lot better.
Now... I still have one issue with Rifts. And this is basically a game design philosophy thing about Palladium. Combat is a GRID not because the actual system mechanics make it that way just because all the setting components are geared to having low damage output compared to the target's ability to take it. Creatures and Armors have WAY more MDC then typical weapons dish out. Combat in Palladium is supposed to be like a Kung-Fu Theater affair with many many many exchanges before its decided.
Oh also... they have an optional section for surviving an MDC attack which is basically a hit location roll which gives you a chance to lose body parts and live as long as you get medical attentions in the next few minutes. Still in is the stupid yet necessary for game-playability rule that any MDC armor you wear protects you 100% from MD attacks but this extra hit location role allows your defeated character to live... and injects more opportunity for characters to have to seek out cybernetics. Both of these last details is a win - win for the game.