Perception Checks (D&D 4E)

[dragonshaos]

Going off some games I've dabbled in with my players, I'd like to know how everyone handles Perception checks.  As dumb as I may sound I've been lookin on the internets and I've found alot of people use houserules when it comes to this.  I'm asking cause I want to know if players initiate their own perception checks, the DM, or if it's all pre-planned out.

I also ask this because my group of players tell me they roll perception in every single room and every single corridor.  And If one person brings it up, everyone wants in.  If one person notices something, everyone wants to reroll (Which I don't let them unless something has changed), etc etc... And I want to get some ideas on how to change this with good reasons other than "STFU You found nothing AGAIN!"

Soo, maybe some interesting ideas will come up, maybe not.  If you want to give a by the book definition on how perception checks work by all means state it.

[Mason]

well to keep the game rolling I have there perception scores written down and I roll in secret. if someone else wants in then they get a roll, but everyone only gets ONE roll. if they bitch and whine I tell them their meta-gaming and to knock it off before there character comes down with "PC fever" and I take there character for a while. Its my own brand of justice I throw at a player to get them to behave. sometimes for story sake I just let people find the secret door or the missing piece to a puzzle.

[Tadanori Oyama]

That's what Passive Perception is for: so they don't roll all the time. It's 10 plus the skill bonus for the character and it sets the DC for anything sneaking up on them. It's also considered "always on" so they see anything that they would see at that number or lower.

Same with Insight.

[dragonshaos]

True.  But what about times when they enter a room and there isn't anything for them to find, no secrets or anything hidden, yet they believe there is something wrong with the room.  I've told them things like 'Oh, you find a drawing of a phallic image on the wall' or 'You don't find anything, or beleive there is anything in the room.'

I honestly hate being a dick DM when we have the time, but when we don't then yeah the gloves come off.  I really like the idea of giving them 1 roll and if they whine I take control of their characters.  That's a good idea, I wanna hear some more.

[clockworkjoe]

Tell them that if they spend all their time making perception checks, they will lose healing surges. Why? Because they're obviously paranoid and don't sleep well. The stress of always looking over your shoulder, not trusting your senses...they will go mad.

[Tadanori Oyama]

Sounds more like a player issue, not a character or mechanic issue.

You tell them what they see, they want to roll, say no because there isn't anything else to see.

[Setherick]

Tell them that if they spend all their time making perception checks, they will lose healing surges. Why? Because they're obviously paranoid and don't sleep well. The stress of always looking over your shoulder, not trusting your senses...they will go mad.

Also make them start seeing things that aren't there because not only are they not sleeping well and paranoid, they have developed delusions because of sleep deprivation.

Player: I make a perception check.

GM: You see an orc charging at you.

Player: I pull out my sword and attack.

GM: Congratulations you successfully cut down your NPC guide.

OR

Player: I make a perception check.

GM: You see a secret door open up.

Player: I walk in it.

GM: Congratulations you break your nose as you smack your face against the wall.

[rayner23]

Tell them that if they spend all their time making perception checks, they will lose healing surges. Why? Because they're obviously paranoid and don't sleep well. The stress of always looking over your shoulder, not trusting your senses...they will go mad.

Dick.

[codered]

         I never have this problem, maybe I catch on to quickly to the point that the gm says you see nothing you see nothing, player that don't believe the GM when he's says that are paranoid. Unless you are a dick and say you see nothing then let them walk on a trap. the best way to keep a player from thinking there's something in the room when there not is to use less emotion when saying there's nothing that they see.


Also I think its best to make it hard for your players to know when the GM is rolling, so roll on something that dampens the noise, if the players hear dice rolling there going to want to counter roll or wonder what's going on.

[Mason]

you know I don't want to jump to conclusions here because players wont do this unless the GM hid stuff from them in plain sight.

 I remember one game I played, one of the players was wet and without clothing so an npc lent him his blanket for the night. well that NPC was there to kill him, he had laced poison on his blanket then gave it to the player. long story short he found out he had been poisoned but we had an cleric in our group who produced a cure.

next time we were in this dungeon, and just as flavor text, there was a large cloth covering a doorway. the player was so scared to go through it that he spent an hour trying device a plan to get around the cloth. they ranged from digging under it, having one PC hold a spear that kept the cloth up while the other players ran though, ridiculous shit. finally the DM got so annoyed he said "it falls down. a fucking breeze blows it over and it falls down!!"

so I wonder what did the GM do to send the players into this kind of logic?

[Setherick]

so I wonder what did the GM do to send the players into this kind of logic?

You do something once and it succeeds and you find something cool ergo you do it all the time and it should succeed and you should find things equally cool.

[Maze]

Make them roll initiative, and let them know they're now in an encounter with the wall. The wall will of course spend his minor action to stay in place and his standard action to "feel complacent about being a wall". He might now and then use his encounter power which is to "give the player a feeling of being enclosed and surrounded".

Then tell them to stop rolling for perception unless you ask for it or they'll get into encounters they have no hope of winning such as the above.

[codered]

That is golden I love it 

[Tadanori Oyama]

Alternativally: the players have awaken the Gazebo.

[Mason]

Make them roll initiative, and let them know they're now in an encounter with the wall. The wall will of course spend his minor action to stay in place and his standard action to "feel complacent about being a wall". He might now and then use his encounter power which is to "give the player a feeling of being enclosed and surrounded".

Then tell them to stop rolling for perception unless you ask for it or they'll get into encounters they have no hope of winning such as the above.

oh no your surrounded and caught flat footed, you guys are screwed now.