The Role Playing Public Radio Forums
General Category => RPGs => : Bowzachi April 27, 2010, 12:59:21 AM
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My only exposure to RPGs thus far has been primarily DnD 3.5 onwards. I somehow ended up DMing a 3.x campaign that went all the way into lvl 30+ and got SEVERELY burnt out and disenchanted with that system. The party was a minmax nightmare mess, with a Decisive Strike Monk that falcon-punched the shit out everything, a Warlock/Ur-Priest with divine meta-magic that could cast divine spells, clone himself, and have each clone use eldritch glaive, One character who I can't even begin to remember what class it was because it was an abominable amalgamation of so many but had something to do with Bloodstorm Blade (basically attacked every possible thing within visible distance for disgusting damage), and a Bard red-shirt who was pretty much weak himself but could mind-control anything not immune to charm and made everyone else even more broken with bardic music combos. This was only just the characters themselves too, I don't even want to think about their cohorts and the ridiculous airship that they came up with. Oh and all the characters were evil except for the Monk who was neutral.
It was an unholy fuckfest.
I am not trying to hate on 3.x too much but personally I am much more than ready for a change of scenery, both to play and to run. Most of my current group is open to the idea of exploring other systems, and a few of them I've gotten to try and enjoy 4E, but there's this one stubborn guy (this guy played the Bard in the fuckfest campaign if you were curious) who swears by 3.x. He even turns his nose up at 4E, citing "lack of options and creative choices." This person has himself DM'ed and played much in the past, but with a different group with which I have no affiliation.
I guess I'm asking for a couple of things. If you guys have any suggestions for a new game; something cool, something different, I'd love to hear. I'm also asking for ways that you can cajole players to try something they haven't seen before.
As a last resort, I want to hear everyone's hard evidence, points against, and reasons why my group should quit DnD 3.x. If you are afraid of starting fires, just PM your reasons to me, we'll have a nice chat I'm sure, I've already got a building laundry list of my own gripes.
Thanks
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as someone who has run an epic 3E campaign and is currently running an epic 4E campaign, there is absolutely no fucking comparison between them. 3E is BROKEN AS SHIT IN EPIC. I think this is due to the 3E design team not taking epic into account when they built the system so they just patched on some shit that they didn't think through later on.
4E was built from the ground up to accommodate epic level play so IT FUCKING WORKS.
Be an asshole. Tell them that you are only running 4E and if they want to play, they will roll up 4E characters. BAD GAMING IS WORSE THAN NO GAMING.
Show the asshole bard character builder and the crazy number of options available.
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this is the thing that pisses me off about 3E fans - they just ignore epic when defending 3E. No one can actually defend epic 3E because it's so fucking broken so 3E fans just pretend it isn't there.
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Thanks for the reply Ross. I skimmed through some previous threads on here and I thought we might have a kindred hatred.
I am a very hateful person.
Seriously though, if we were going to try something outside of DnD editions entirely, do you have any suggestions? I've been wanting to try something horror-y lately, maybe in a modern setting.
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Thanks for the reply Ross. I skimmed through some previous threads on here and I thought we might have a kindred hatred.
I am a very hateful person.
Seriously though, if we were going to try something outside of DnD editions entirely, do you have any suggestions? I've been wanting to try something horror-y lately, maybe in a modern setting.
I would recommend avoiding CoC as it does not sound like a good fit for your group (at least not at the moment).
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Hunter the Vigil is pretty cool. Try that.
If they are warhammer 40k fans try rogue trader
Call of Cthulhu has a different mentality than D&D - magic spells are bad for PCs, hording magc items is bad, running away is a good idea
That said, CoC is an awesome fucking game.
Oh and 1 last thing: there is one good version of 3E D&D: Iron Heroes.
Iron Heroes is fucking metal as shit and badass. IT IS FULL OF WIN.
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Cool, thanks for the game suggestions. I've heard of Hunter the Vigil, but it's part of WoD isn't it? How is it different from WoD? CoC I don't think my group is quite ready for yet, but I'll look into Iron Heroes.
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I am a HUGE Call of Cthulhu fan, so if you want to try something in a horror venue, please give it a try. CoC is a d100 system built on the premiss that your characters are equipped with a host of skills. The more characters you have with a variety of skills, the more apt your group will be to combat the evils.
If your group is interested in trying out some interesting rule sets, you might want to try Trail of Cthulhu. ToC uses the Gumshoe system. Your character's skill have a pool of points you can spend to get bonuses to your rolls. Also, in the Gumshoe system, your characters are almost guaranteed to find and collect the clues they need to solve the mystery. It's just how you use those clues that can make or break the game.
Pelgrane Press has several horror-based games that use the Gumshoe system, so you have a lot of choice if you guys want to check out a horror game. I know Ross is familiar with these games, since several of his actual plays are in these different systems. I only have ToC from Pelgrane, so if you have any questions about any of their other games I'm sure Ross should be able to chime in.
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Cool, thanks for the game suggestions. I've heard of Hunter the Vigil, but it's part of WoD isn't it? How is it different from WoD? CoC I don't think my group is quite ready for yet, but I'll look into Iron Heroes.
Hunter isn't really different than WoD. The world of darkness is just a setting that all the other games are a part of. Vampire, Werewolf, Hunter etc etc are just elements that make up the World of Darkness. I find the hardest thing about trying to get my group to play a new system is that no one wants to buy the books. The best advice I can offer for that is buy the book for yourself, make a reference sheet for rules that players will need to play the game and hopefully if they enjoy the game they will stop being bitches and buy the book. As for horror, you can't get much better than CoC, but its not good for people with a Dungeons and Dragons mentality, especially 3.x.
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What kind of gameplay does your group like?
You mention you were playing epic, but does that mean you were playing a standard dungeon crawl game with high level characters or were you playing epic in the sense that your group was part of world politics and was more social than combat?
I think that can influence which system you pick to move to.
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I've heard Synnibarr is a good system :)
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I've heard Synnibarr is a good system :)
If you like pure fantasy you can't beat F.A.T.A.L.
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I've heard Synnibarr is a good system :)
If you like pure fantasy you can't beat F.A.T.A.L.
Yeah, these two games will definitely be the change your group needs. If anything, after playing either of these they will surely appreciate 4th edition D&D
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I've heard Synnibarr is a good system :)
If you like pure fantasy you can't beat F.A.T.A.L.
Yeah, these two games will definitely be the change your group needs. If anything, after playing either of these they will surely appreciate 4th edition D&D
But the question is How much san are you willing to lose trying to teach 4 people the system?
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I've heard Synnibarr is a good system :)
If you like pure fantasy you can't beat F.A.T.A.L.
Yeah, these two games will definitely be the change your group needs. If anything, after playing either of these they will surely appreciate 4th edition D&D
As much as it takes damn it! ;)
But the question is How much san are you willing to lose trying to teach 4 people the system?
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Cool, thanks for the game suggestions. I've heard of Hunter the Vigil, but it's part of WoD isn't it? How is it different from WoD?
The players are mortals who have connections to groups with resources and knowledge most people don't have. It's also possible to play the game as straight mortal characters if you so desire.
Virgil introduces an alternative morality device (which is greatly enjoy) called Breaking Points which allows monster hunters to "side step" some mortal problems but also makes them a little freaky. Basically a Hunter can change what he views as a "sin" and take on a moral standard seperate from the rest of mortal society.
There are also rules for team work and special tricks called Tactics. Awesome mechanics and just reading the tactics options will give you and your players now ideas on how to survive a monster fight.
If your group wants to punch vampires in the face and hunt werewolves at night without worrying about getting killed than Hunter is definitely the wrong game for them. But if they want to overcome horrible monsters by the skin of their teeth, than it's perfect.
Hunter is kind of like Call of Cthulhu in that the players are almost always over their heads. However, in Hunter you can "win" if your lucky and skilled.
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I second Iron Heroes.
It's like 3.5, with some broken stuff, but it's fucking awesome.
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Just so I'm aware what should I be wary of in Iron Heroes
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Don't let players play magic users. Magic is for pussies and bad guys.
read the errata
http://ironheroesfaq.pbworks.com/
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So magic is still shitbroken even in this huh, that's too bad. :'( I started reading through Iron Heroes and it looks TIGHT AS HELL, but I am sure a lot of my players are going to be skeptical about absence of magic.
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So magic is still shitbroken even in this huh, that's too bad. :'( I started reading through Iron Heroes and it looks TIGHT AS HELL, but I am sure a lot of my players are going to be skeptical about absence of magic.
Just lay down the law say it's the way the world is.
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all the player characters are such badasses that they don't need magic. Seriously. I am going to record some IH games this summer to prove how much it owns.
IT OWNS
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So stick around and some time 3rd quarter 2011 right after diablo 3 drops you'll get some awsome examples of :'(IH.
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Late 2011.
A little bit optimistic hm?
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geeez
I post games out of order sometimes
the fear the con games and the world of darkness got posted right after I ran them
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Thanks to the Flower Planting mind controlling yahoo!
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NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 3.5 epic level isn't broken! It rocks! Anyone who says it doesn't is a nazi furry lover. I'll have to smite them with my Katana!
What was I saying?
My group in 3.5 is going through the mid high levels now (they are currently 13th) and the mechanics are starting to get very hit or miss. I expect it to all fall apart onvce they hit actually epic level, at least without a bunch of tweeks. They don't have a wizard or druid and just had a sorcerer (though multi-class so only 8th CL) join the group so they lack the true blasting capability.
Seems like 4E has a much better hold on this, though my 4E character is only 2nd level at this point :-)
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NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 3.5 epic level isn't broken! It rocks! Anyone who says it doesn't is a nazi furry lover. I'll have to smite them with my Katana!
WHAT IS WRONG WITH WANTING TO HATE JEWS AND PRETEND TO BE A SEXY FOX AT THE SAME TIME! TELL ME NOW!
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NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 3.5 epic level isn't broken! It rocks! Anyone who says it doesn't is a nazi furry lover. I'll have to smite them with my Katana!
WHAT IS WRONG WITH WANTING TO HATE JEWS AND PRETEND TO BE A SEXY FOX AT THE SAME TIME! TELL ME NOW!
Just click here (http://slangdesign.com/rppr/2007/01/comedy/another-flame-war-on-the-internet/).
EDIT: For the life of me I don't know why Tom and I picked Killer Whale and Aardvark...
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I remember an epic lvl game i play where i could jump as high as i would like and as far as my 130 speed would permit with out a running jump, all possible with just a couple of epic feats. And the fact that i could sneak attack from 60ft with a ranged skirmisher and if i hide they would have to role to see me even after i attacked. Crazy. After that game i convinced my group to do fear itself and i ran it.
They loved it! havent played dnd since. although i think were going to start a 4th edition game soon. some times a dramatic change of setting is needed to facilitate the dnd edition switch.