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General Category => General Chaos => : Tadanori Oyama April 02, 2012, 03:01:10 PM
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Got the idea from the Anecdote thread. Alot of systems have a "baseline" human. Commonor, peasant, laboror, citizen, whatever the get called they are all cardboard cut outs of human beings.
And I intend to see who the greatest cardboard cut out of them all is.
Everybody think of how your favorite game would depict a "1st Level Commoner" and post it below. Observiously point by systems and classless system will have a harder time but we'll manage.
Once we've gathered a few individuals we'll pit them against one another in life or death combat and we'll see what happens.
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Average commoner for D&D is going to be, we'll say a laborer. Bog standard, normal NPC array. Pertinent combat data only.
Str 13
Dex 11
Con 12
Wis 8
Int 10
Cha 9
AC 10
HP 8
Atk +1
Init+0
Feats: Skill Focus (chosen profession), Toughness
Dam: 1d8+1 (we'll assume they're not a total twit and using a morningstar, the best simple weapon they have access to.)
Then there's the average World of Synnibarr 'Commoner' who has 3 levels of a PC class because it's goddamn Synnibarr. . .therefore, they don't count, due to being unfairly great at everything.
M&M2e, common man is a 'Bystander'
10s in all stats, +0 to hit, AC 10, only skills are Knowledge: (Current Events) and Pop-Culture, and 4 ranks in their chosen Profession.
Note: It's possible that 'bystanders' are in fact a terrible example of a 'common man', as there are also examples for Police Officers, Fire Fighters, and other normal real-world professions that are far more competent than a faceless 'Joe Blow'.
I actually will not be surprised if the average D&D Human Commoner is more competent/dangerous than most other system/worlds ones, simply due to the fact that they tend to have to put up with more bullshit than everyone else. Goblins and the like.
As far as the 2nd Edition Shadowrun book, the closest I can find to 'A Commoner' would be The Bartender.
Body: 4
Quickness:3
Strength: 4
Charisma: 3
Intelligence: 2
Willpower : 2
Essence: 6
Reaction: 2
Professionalism: 1
Firearms: 3
Unarmed Combat: 3
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Wild Talents Blue Collar Worker (72 points, from Wild Talents Essential Edition Page 172)
Body 2d
Athletics 1d (3d)
Brawling 1d (3d)
Endurance 2d (4d)
Coordination 2d
Sense 2d
Mind 2d
Knowledge (Mechanics) 2d (4d)
Command 2d
Base Will 4
Bring it, bitches.
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Edit: Whoops, double post.
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Savage Worlds Commoner
Basic Stats
Spirit: d4
Strength: d4
Smarts: d4
Agility: d4
Vigor: d4
Derived Statistics
Pace: 6
Charisma: 0
Toughness: 4
Parry: 2
Human - One (1) Free Edge
Alertness: + 2 to all Notice rolls.
This guy is gonna get smoked...
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Risus Commoner;
Denny Blaze, the average homeboy
Cliches:
15 minutes of fame - 3
White Middle Class - 3
Mullet upkeep - 2
Very creative in their own mind - 2
Tools: Youtube, credit cards, casio keyboard, mullet.
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Okay, so we've got six, seven if we split the D&D commoner into 3.5 and Pathfinder. I'll find the stats for a level 1 commoner in 4E D&D and we'll be set for Death Match.
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I'm going to bet that the Shadowrun 'tender will be #1 (depending on equipment; give 'em the 'ol 'shotgun behind the bar' and he's unstoppable).
Behind that, Pathfinder, then D&D 3.5, Wild Talents, with the M&M2e 'Bystander' coming in dead last.
get it? Death match. Dead. Ho ho ho, I slay me.
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Okay, here's what I've got for round one. This is a Death Match so it's single elimination, winner take all.
3.5 D&D Commoner VS. Pathfinder Commoner
Wild Talents Blue Collar Worker VS. Shadowrun "Bartender"
Savage Worlds Commoner VS. M&M Bystander
Risus Commoner VS. 4E D&D Commoner
I'll try to run through this at the game shop tonight and have a write up ASAP.
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Waiting impatiently. 8)
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Maaaannn... my horse is up against the ringer. :(
Base will, don't fail him now!
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First Match
Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 1st Level Commoner against Pathfinder 1st Level Commoner
Johnny: This is the big event for a lot of people gathered here today. We’ve got a representative of a long enduring engine of creative adventure up against a near mirror image from the supposedly modern version of his world. These gentleman have little in the way of empathy for one another, I think we’re going to see some serious blood here today.
Let’s go down to the arena floor with Nick Diamond.
Nick: Nick Diamond here with your ring side report. As you can tell from the character sheets not a lot of tricks in either of these contenders’ corners. Our experts are predicting both fighters to move their base speed towards each other and begin attacking.
Pathfinder does have a small edge with that +2 to any attribute and, to no one’s surprise, he’s gone ahead and put that into Strength. The Skill Focus (Farming) probably isn’t going to turn things in his favor but the Improved Initative is.
D&D on the other hand has taken that human bonus feat in another direction and grabbed Toughness, not surprising given the long bumpy read he’s probably been down since 2003.
The commoners are getting into position so we’re going back up to the booth for a bird’s eye view.
Johnny: The dice are hitting the table. D&D gets a 5 and Pathfinder a 7, giving Pathfinder a total of 11. It’s right about now that you really question the choice to go with such a front loaded feat in a single match like this.
Nick: It’s all a numbers game Johnny. The guy wanted to go first and he’s going first, you can’t deny that part of the plan succeeded.
Johnny: Pathfinder closing to melee, no surprises there.
Nick: D&D’s a little surprised but only because he’s noticing we took his morning star away. That 8 Wisdom doesn’t help much with Spot or Listen.
Johnny: First unarmed swing of the match… 5. Disappointing.
Nick: Not any prettier from ring side.
Johnny: D&D responds with a 14, easily clearing the bar of 10, and inflicts 1+1 subdual damage.
Nick: The real treat of this match is going to be the one who’s still conscious caving in the other’s head with a rock because subdual is just not going to do it.
Johnny: Pathfinder now well behind the curve, facing an enemy with higher hit points and having lost the first round advantage. Rolled comes up… 12, good enough. That’ll inflict 1+2.
Nick: In a match with this little HP that extra damage from the +2 Strength might actually make a difference.
Johnny: D&D with a 9. Pathfinder right back with an 8. D&D gets 10!
Nick: This might be it.
Johhny: Damaging coming up 2+1. That’s 0 HP for Pathfinder but that isn’t the game.
Nick: Right you are Johnny. Pathfinder is Staggered but not out and can still take a Standard action.
Johnny: Which looks like it’s going to be an attack. Oh my! 15 attack and 3+2 damage.
Nick: That throws D&D down to 0 HP but the effort of a Standard action drops Pathfinder by 1 HP and he is on the ground at -1.
Johnny: Which leaves D&D standing there like a zombie, unable to finish off Pathfinder without committing to a slow death himself. Dignity thy name is roleplaying.
Nick: It’s still good enough for the win. Nine short rounds of bleeding out and D&D moves on to the next round of this competition.
Johnny: Indeed he does. As D&D stumbles at half speed out of the ring to look for either a Cleric or someone with a positive Wisdom bonus and the Heal skill we’d like to take this chance to remind you not to drink and drive.
Johnny: Next up in our Role Playing Commoner Death Match series is Wild Talents Blue Collar Worker VS. Shadowrun "Bartender". Until then ladies and gentlemen: Good fight, good night.
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MOAR!
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Tad,
I was proctoring a test when I read this. I started cackling like a jackass before I realized kids were looking at me. THis is like the funniest thing ever. I think RPPR should use this for the next video short.
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Kick his ass D&D 3.5 errrrrhemmmm Pathfinder 0-Level Commoner!
These two will meet again, when 5th Ed. comes out!
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Very well handled. Thanks for writin' this up. : )
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Thanks guys, glad to know you like it.
Match 2 was way longer. I'm trying to get the write up done by tonight but no promises. I will say it didn't go how I expected.
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Another update. Not going to be done today, too busy. I'll do my best to have it done tomorrow. Details in spoilers below to keep the surprise for anybody who wants to wait.
[spoiler]This is a fucking long match; it's going to take a long time to write it up properly and believe me, it deserves it. The systems rubbed against each other something fierce so I had to do alot of improvised adjustments. It lasted for 40 Rounds. That's 2 solid real time minutes of two guys just beating the shit out of each other.[/spoiler]
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Blue Collar Worker's one damned determined sonuvabitch, that's for sure. Can't wait to hear how things turned out!
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Joining the audience on this one.
Gooo Commoners!
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when is this going to be updated?
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Is this still a thing?
Necromancy is my Specialized School of Magic after all.
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I should probably finish this. The second round got so long it was difficult to write it all out. Let me go back and see what I've got.
Addition: Looks like I got as far as Round 3. I'll post what I have and try to go back and finish the match up with some new rolls since I can't find the paper copies of the original fight.
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I should probably finish this. The second round got so long it was difficult to write it all out. Let me go back and see what I've got.
Addition: Looks like I got as far as Round 3. I'll post what I have and try to go back and finish the match up with some new rolls since I can't find the paper copies of the original fight.
Still that is pretty awesome, can't believe you still have this stuff after so long. I'm excited.
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Nick: Johnny this Shadowrun guy is from such an old idea of the future that black and white space movies laugh at him in the hallway. If I took out my iPhone and waved it at him I think he’d have a heart attack.
Johnny: And how does the other contestant look to you?
Nick: Who?
Johnny: The Wild Talents Blue Collar Worker. The other contestant in this round of the Death Match… where is he?
Nick: I have no idea; he looks like anyone else here.
Johnny: There’s the bell. The contestants are entering the arena... hopefully that man is the right one. Dice are about to hit the table and… wait a moment there appears to be some confusion ring side. Nick! Nick, what’s happening down there?
Nick: Johnny a young man claiming to be the grandson of our Shadowrun contestant is physically barring the bartender from entering the arena. He’s claiming that setting up a man with a 20 year old rule set against a modern game system isn’t a fair fight and demanding he be allowed to take his grandfather’s place.
Johnny: This is highly irregular. What does the referree say?
Mills Lane: I’ll allow it!
Johnny: Shocking turn of events! It looks like we have a surprise twist here at Death Match folks. Nick, what’s the Wild Talents contestant’s reaction to this change?
Nick: Is that him over there buying nachos?
Johnny: Nick he’s the man in the ring!
Nick: Holy cow, you’re right. Man that guy is bland.
Johnny: Maybe you could just put the stats for our newest contestant up on the screen, Nick?
Nick: Sure thing Johnny. Folks we’re looking at 4th Edition Shadowrun Bartender, a look at 2074 through the eyes for 2005. You know, instead of 2060 through 1992. The point is he probably knows what a cellphone is, Johnny.
Body 4
Agility 3
Reaction 2
Intuition 3
Logic 2
Charisma 3
Willpower 2
Edge 2
Unarmed Combat 2
Long Arms 2
Dodge 1
Perception 1
Johhny: Our new Shadowrun contestant is now in the ring so let’s roll. No hits on 5 dice for initative from Shadowrun; Wild Talents of course doesn’t roll but still comes up short with a sense of 2 against Shadowruns’s Intuituion of 3.
Nick: Wild Talents is playing it safe. He says he’s going to block. I get the feeling that coming from a system with active defenses is going to be a big stumbling block.
Johhny: Shadowrun is going right for the action. This is where we’ll see some of the rules conflict really come to a head. Five six siders out and it’s 4, 1, 6, 2, 1. One success is good enough for a hit. That would be half his Body plus successes in Stunning but Wild Talents blocks with 3, 6, 3.
Nick: I get the feeling this is gonna be a long one Johnny.
Johnny: Wild Talents going on the offensive. 9, 3, 7. Shadowrun returns with 2, 6, 6, 1, 2. Two hits for four stunning.
Nick: Stunning indeed Johnny. He was so surprised he dropped his dice. 9, 9, 1, 9.
Johnny: Actually nice that’s the automatic resistance roll. When you start slamming rules against each other you get some slippage. That was Body + Endurance at height 9, which more than blocks the 4 stunning from Shadowrun.
Nick: I think Wild Talents just noticed too. Boy does he look happy.
Johnny: It looks like he’s got a plan now too. He appears to be taking a turn to aim and add another die to his pool. Nick, is that a Wild Talents rule or a Shadowrun rule?
Nick: Johnny, this is Death Match. Somebody might’ve thrown it to him under the rope like a folding chair for all I know.
(start of Round 3)
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I love how those systems clash so hard... it's beautiful. Shadow Run rules basically make the Blue Collar guy have some free armor which is just funny.