The Role Playing Public Radio Forums
General Category => RPGs => : Flawless P May 16, 2014, 03:47:15 PM
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So yeah...
Of those of you that have run FATE, what are your impressions? Any challenges you've found in the rules?
Literally I'd just like to hear any and every thought people have on it, specifics are good.
I'm going to run a campaign in it, however I want to immerse myself more fully in the system first.
Don't worry I also have the Base Raiders episodes on my list of things to listen to.
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It takes some work to build up players to the point that the system really shines. It works for more traditional gameplay (kill things and take their stuff), sort of, but it really is a unique combination of rules, narrative, and points.
For example, getting taken out of a scene (lossing all stress) can happen really easily and this is actually intentional. Players need to learn to concede if they think they might lose but "concede" sounds way too much like "given up" for the players that I game with and they aren't keen on it.
Finding the line on declarations takes some work and is closely tied to the setting. Tied with that are good compels and proper assessments for aspects.
When everyone knows how Fate works the whole thing can be glorious. In my experience 70% or more of players don't actually ready the rules, even if you give them the book, and don't remember them if you explain them at the beginning.
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That is one of my biggest fears.
I explained the fact that you as a player have mechanics to give your character an edge in situations, and that being aware and taking advantage of those situations was the most important mechanic to learn.
I'm a little nervous about running it but I honestly think it seems crazy fun.
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I can honestly say that some of the best games that I have run have been Fate. The more people are involved the better it will become and the more unique. The generic mechanics are designed to allow specific narratives for each group and if the players actually help by doing that then it will be fun.
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Well if you don't mind me getting a bit more specific with my questions....
How powerful do aspects end up on the average?
Also I'm finding it difficult to differentiate stunts from aspects.
On top of that... do Aspects usually cost fate points to use or is it usually free and the more powerful ones cost?
I feel like I've gotten some conflicting rulings from the SRD
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Aspects are the great leveler of the field. They let characters choose who they want to be.
Fate Points are the currency of Fate, they are the center point. A Fate point alone is worth a +1. But invoking an Aspect, which costs a Fate point, is worth +2. So, right away, Aspects double your exchange rate. +2 alone is big enough to be significant in most Fate games but if you have more than one Aspect that can apply to a situation (for example "Strongest Man in the Neighborhood" and "Gotta keep face" would both apply to lifting something heavy while in public) then they can all be tagged for 1 Fate point each. Sometimes a player can get +4 or +6. That's a big committment in Fate points but it lets players turn the tide in their favor.
Additionally, Aspects can be tagged (using a Fate point) to gain narrative effects. Using the above example, "Strongest Man in the Neighborhood" could be tagged to establish that the character in question has a bar bell set, or a lifting belt, or something a little stronger like body oil. This makes aspects extremely useful at giving characters things they should have according to their backstory.
Stunts are specific abilities. In most Fate games they change the way at a skill works or give a skill a bonus in narrow circumstances. Stunts cannot be tagged or invoked and they cannot be compelled. They just exist to provide their bonus, whatever it might be. Stunts might have a cost in Fate points depending on the Fate setting you are using.
Depending on the game system you select invoking an personal Aspect will always cost a Fate point. However temporary Aspects (such as Consequences) that pop up during a scene can generally be tagged once for free. Aspects universally cost the same (1 Fate point) when invoked (note the difference between "invoking" and "tagging").
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All right so lets say
An Assassin sneaks into a bar with a concealed handgun.
The Player Characters notice the weapon.
So the Handgun Equipment aspect is now on the table.
Could a player then compel that aspect to become a complication for that character?
Such as compelling the handgun to become important during the scene by having a bouncer notice or something similar?
Such a thing would cost a fate point, but is that the basic idea behind compelling?
Although Equipment aspects are usually temporary and therefore not necessarily as broad as a character aspect I assume it works somewhat similarly.
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I've been running a fairly consistent Base Raiders game for a while now and I think my favorite part of GMing is the compel. It's a good way to control the flow of narrative while stressing out your players. One issue I've found, which is probably unique to Strange FATE, is how much the flow of the game shifts when your characters have higher tiered powers. It can make it very hard to take a character out, which, as Tad points out, is important for characters to learn to concede.
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All right so lets say
An Assassin sneaks into a bar with a concealed handgun.
The Player Characters notice the weapon.
So the Handgun Equipment aspect is now on the table.
Could a player then compel that aspect to become a complication for that character?
"Handgun Equipment" isn't an aspect as far as I know. Maybe in some rules for Fate Core. Not familiar with the idea of Equipment Aspects.
If the players notice that someone has a gun that's information that they have. An Aspect might be on the individual with the gun like "Professional Assassin" but someone needs to make an Assessment using a skill in order for them to discover that Aspect. The scene itself might have an Aspect like "Filled with Cigarette Smoke" which the assassin might tag to get a bonus on future steal rolls or the players might tag to try and evade the assassin.
Such as compelling the handgun to become important during the scene by having a bouncer notice or something similar?
Such a thing would cost a fate point, but is that the basic idea behind compelling?
The storyteller generally compels and they don't compel NPCs (normally). The GM could compel one of the PCs if they had an Aspect like "Hunted by an Assassin" to explain why the assassin is in the bar to begin with.
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Fate Accelerated might be my favorite system at the moment. I like Fate Core, but I like the way FAE plays with Approaches over the traditional "skill" mechanics Fate Core uses.
I am not a big fan of Strange Fate. I LOVE Base Raiders as a setting, but I find the power tiers of Strange Fate a bit unwieldy and tricky to balance as a GM. My group converted their characters to Fate Core and changed their powers to Stunts, and the game was much better overall.
Fate might take a few sessions to "get," but a good game of Fate is a thing of beauty.
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So from what I'm reading Compelling an Aspect is usually GM facing but PC's can compel other PC's Aspects.
Maybe I just imagined the part about PC's compelling enemy Aspects.
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GMs compel PCs to put them at a disadvantage and create tension. This reinforces the economy in the game, where the player has to decide if he/she wants to put the character in potential danger and gain a Fate point OR to act against character and spend a fate point. Oftentimes PCs will compel themselves to gain Fate points (and it is often just good role-playing). I do not allow other players to compel each other (I cannot remember if the rules say anything about this or not).
My advice for reading Fate is to AVOID the SRD. I would try out Fate Core or Fate Accelerated (or both!) at DriveThruRPG. You do not have to pay at first, and the writing is excellent and helps clarify questions about the system. If the actual books help you understand the system better (and I think they will), then I would re-purchase them on DTRPG and give Evil Hat some money.
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I ran the Dresden files a few times.
Here are my bullet points about it.
- Characters built on 10 refresh are POWERFUL
- Players who are used to simulationist systems, like say GURPS, will struggle to wrap their head around the system.
- Some players will feel that the FATE chip economy is like begging the GM for power/fule.
- When it works, it really works.
- The Dresden city creation system and the group creation system rock!
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The Dresden Files uses a system created prior to Fate Core so it's a little different but the basic ideas as the same. It's one of those games were the players really need to have read the setting material, meaning the books, given have different magic works than in some other settings.
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The Dresden Files uses a system created prior to Fate Core so it's a little different but the basic ideas as the same. It's one of those games were the players really need to have read the setting material, meaning the books, given have different magic works than in some other settings.
It's DnD 3.5 vs Pathfinder.
Fate Core is a more refined version of Dresden
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Not how I would put it; I can understand why someone would make that comparison.
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I found the thing I was thinking of in terms of equipment aspects.
http://fate-srd.com/fate-system-toolkit/gear-aspects (http://fate-srd.com/fate-system-toolkit/gear-aspects)
I've been looking at the fate core book and so far I'm not sure how different it is, they seem to be nearly identical.
I haven't gotten super far yet though.
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Ah, it is an optional rule. I'd go ahead and ignore that if you haven't run Fate previously, keep the Aspects you already have in the game. Aspects can get extremely mixed up if you have too many going on. I recommend having notecards at the table for when temporary ones start flying during a conflict.
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Also I'm finding it difficult to differentiate stunts from aspects.
The easiest way I found to explain it to my friends was to take the example in FATE Accelerated and following the formula:
"Because I am [insert relevant Aspect], when I do [insert Approach for FATE acc, or specific action] to achieve [create an aspect, or other narrow action], I have a +2."
So for one PC who was a Faerie creature,Prince of the Cats, he had the following stunt:
Because I am [Prince of the Cats], I get a +2 to [Identify aspect] when I am calling the Neighborhood Council of Cats to gather information.
Stunts are free (do not cost Fate point) whereas calling an Aspect DOES cost a Fate point.
There are also stunts that you can only use once per gaming session.
In this case, one character had a Cloack of Thousand Faces and it worked that way:
Because I own [the Cloack of the Thousand Faces], once per game, I can change my [Role]. (In this game, "Role" was defined as what the Faerie character was pretending to be when he was amongst human, it was an temporary aspect that he could call to be more believable and competent when he was playing his human role).
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have yet to run or play it, but have a scenario and some lightly modded rules for Walmart Apocalypse using FATE, and think I've got enough grasp on Base Raiders to walk some players through character creation whenever we can manage the time
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We've started the process of creating characters, and the setting.
Everyones got general ideas but it was hard for us to stay on topic so we made a group on facebook so we can discuss things as we go throughout the week.
We used the character creation rules for Dresden Files to make characters and backstory for an Iron Heroes game and it worked great just to make our characters nice and fleshed out.
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Would anyone be opposed to posting a character or two?
Just so I can see how a fully fleshed character looks by the end.
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Sure! Here's one of my player's characters (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1O-Ro1o3R3ZWrjIHC-S5wJWzswKU7tWoy_-OIzjzHcvg/mobilebasic), the booze bender.
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This is a Base Raiders character yes?
I've been listening to Base Raiders to get an idea of how Fate is played and it seems like the system holds up.
Do you find it difficult naming your aspects descriptive enough to be able to invoke them often?
Or vice versa with compels?
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Yes, absolutely. Aspects drive pretty much the entirety of play.
Essentially, Fate is not about whether a PC will succeed at something but how much they are willing to pay to succeed. So if a PC is a sort of Engineer type in a Space game, they might have 2 or 3 Aspects that are named in ways that can be interpreted to invoke for fixing the Ship's engine. So the PC, as long as they are willing to pay Fate Points to invoke this, is likely to succeed.
The end result of this is that they are drained of Fate Points, which means that now they shift to self-compelling or are more receptive to the GM compelling their Aspects because they need those FP to succeed later.
I ran a Fate Core Game (with some Extras) for a Black Ops Mech Team and have some of the character sheets. If you're interested, I can throw one of those up and maybe give you a little write up to an Actual Play situation where a PC was invoked/compelled
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Aspects are definitely the focus of play, but you have to make sure it's not too generalized and not too specific, and it really helps if the aspects are tailored to the player's strengths.. For example, one of my players has the aspect "there always needs to be a plan:" this is a pretty good aspect in that it can be compelled when the group goes in guns blazing, and it can give a bonus for planning sessions, but there's a problem with the player: she's pretty much incapable of lateral thinking and planning things. The aspect doesn't see much use because of this. But she's also got the aspect "bitches get shit done," which works great!
Aspects should also always have two sides: something that can work for the player, and another way it can be used negatively by the GM. If they're written that way, aspects really drive the story: if not, then they're just a bunch of pluses and minuses, which goes against the idea of such a narrative game in my eyes.
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Figured this might also be useful for everyone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0f3JMY74Q4
This is the first session to a Space Opera Fate Core game ran by Jacob Possin (who also had a hand in writing Jadepunk). They do character creation, including making up races on the fly for some of the players. They do not spend too much time on talking about how to play the game but Jacob's very experienced with Fate and I think he runs it almost as well as you can.
This later turns into the Silence Falls Some More, and then the Shadow Legion series if you're interested in continuing to follow the APs on his channel.
http://www.twitch.tv/thursdayknights/b/516859979 (Start at about 00:46:30 to skip a bunch of small talk before they start the game)
This is Thursday Knights. They have been livestreaming an AP of an Edge Of The Empire Game for a while, but in this episode, they decide that they don't like EotE too much and switch over to Fate Accelerated Edition (FAE). Greg, their GM, does a really good job at explaining both the basics of Fate itself but also what's neat about Fate Accelerated.
After this session they pretty much end up entirely switching over to FAE from EotE, so you can continue watching if APs are your thing. Word of warning, they just continue their campaign with the new system rather than reboot, so you're likely to be a little lost in terms of story if you haven't been following from the beginning.
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I ran a Fate Core Game (with some Extras) for a Black Ops Mech Team and have some of the character sheets. If you're interested, I can throw one of those up and maybe give you a little write up to an Actual Play situation where a PC was invoked/compelled
This would be lovely.
I feel like I've kind of hit my limit on what I can get out of the book so real life examples are much appreciated.
Also I will definitely check out those links. Thanks a ton.
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If you haven't checked it out yet, these sites offer a wealth of information/settings/characters/examples to use:
http://evilhat.wikidot.com/community-fate-core-extensions (http://evilhat.wikidot.com/community-fate-core-extensions)
http://evilhat.wikidot.com/fate-rpg (http://evilhat.wikidot.com/fate-rpg)
I have a question for everyone: do you allow players to make skill rolls when they do not have the skill? For example, if they do not have "Alertness," do you let them roll at +0?
I have always let players do this, but I was told that I should not be and that they should only roll for the skills they have. This seems odd to me, but it does make sense to some extent (in Fate your characters are equally defined by what skills they DO NOT have). Still, the math is designed for a +1 roll on 4 Fudge dice alone to be difficult, so I always assumed a +0 roll to be a "base" roll that they won't succeed at. But hey, if I'm wrong I'm wrong.
I'll just stick to FAE and use Approaches instead. 8)
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Coolio, I have learned quite a lot.
Clearly I cannot just read books to learn rules.
I've known this about myself and yet I can't help but try.
So here's something I can't find a 100% straight explanation of.
Stress and Consequences.
I've learned that default stress boxes have a value of 1 and 2. But I can't find anywhere how much the additional boxes are worth based on your stats.
On top of that, I can I can't find the full explanation of Consequences value. I know Major can absorb a 6 shit hit but thats all I found.
EDIT:
HAHAHAHA
I found it.
More Physique/Will = more and bigger stress boxes
Consequences 2-4-6 and the dreaded 8 shift protection.
I'm not helpless after all.
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I have a question for everyone: do you allow players to make skill rolls when they do not have the skill? For example, if they do not have "Alertness," do you let them roll at +0?
I have always let players do this, but I was told that I should not be and that they should only roll for the skills they have. This seems odd to me, but it does make sense to some extent (in Fate your characters are equally defined by what skills they DO NOT have). Still, the math is designed for a +1 roll on 4 Fudge dice alone to be difficult, so I always assumed a +0 roll to be a "base" roll that they won't succeed at. But hey, if I'm wrong I'm wrong.
I'll just stick to FAE and use Approaches instead. 8)
You can definitely use skills at +0. FATE characters are supposed to be pretty competent, and it'd be weird if a character untrained in it couldn't even attempt Stealth, for an example. The only exception might be if you're using a skill as an Extra, and buying into the skill is one of the Permissions to get it. Otherwise, you're meant to always be at least able to attempt something, and, if you're willing to sink enough Fate Points into the action, succeed.
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This would be lovely.
I feel like I've kind of hit my limit on what I can get out of the book so real life examples are much appreciated.
On the matter of letting them roll at +0 for Skills, as everyone else has said, yes you should let them do that! Although they don't have a great chance at succeeding. Check out anydice.com to roll up probability tables for any dice +Skill Rating (0,1, 2, etc.) and you can see for yourself. Also, if you take the time to construct a Fudge (Fate) die on there d{-1...1} etc. take a look at the probability curve for 4dF vs. 3d6, 1d20 or any other popular roll. You'll probably like the system even more once you see how nicely it makes the players even more competent by relying on their Skills...
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http://imgur.com/DndOYh6 -> Char. Sheet for Zero
That aside, regarding the Char. Sheet and situation for Invokes I promised. This is one side of the player's character sheet that I'm going to talk about. I think this version is missing the stunts but has the important stuff anyway (Aspects).
Without going into game story. The players blew any notion of operation security in their last mission. They're sitting at a debriefing and getting reamed out for it. Command argues that they need to get rid of a prisoner they took during their mission, he has to be executed immediately because he is a liability and a threat to their deniable asset status.
Player Compel
So one PC, Resident Manipulator, decides that he thinks this is super fishy and sneaks out. He uses what is essentially their Tacnet to make a Player Compel (he offers one of his own Fate Points to compel another player) to a second PC, who was saved from a horrible accident by "Peace" (their boss) and inducted into Black Ops after giving him some cybernetic limbs. He tells Robot Man that he is compelling his "This Is My Only Chance" Aspect, which referred to Robot Man's desire to enact this sort of life debt he has to this organization for saving him, lying to him that he has received separate orders from Peace, that command in the briefing room is compromised and that he should delay them at all costs. Robot Man has no Fate Points so he can't buy off the compel so he HAS to accept (Had he denied it, they would both basically pay into the central Fate Point pool and BOTH would lose their Fate Point).
Invoking
Robot Man tries to delay action from everyone in the briefing room (including the other PCs in the room) by various means but they're continuously on topic. So, he decides to derail the conversation by supposedly slipping out, (he's lying), that one of the bumbling aids in the room is in love with one of the officers. He's played his character as supposedly being incapable in social situations and not understanding emotion (Trouble: I'm Still Human -> i.e. sometimes he does let feelings get to him). So he fails his lie check, BUT invokes "Can't Stand Fools" for the re-roll, deducing that the aid will provide the perfect derailment when this comes up cause he's not too clever and gets it, delaying enough for Resident Manipulator to get to the prisoner.
GM Compel
Their boss, "Peace", basically video calls in (which they thought could not happen due to setting stuff. Basically Minovsky particle stuff) at this point and blows Resident Manipulator's lie. Command reveals that they do have contact with him (which confirms some of RM's suspicions, and makes him think even more they're trying to cover something up with the prisoner's death). "Peace" completely agrees with command and gives the direct order that prisoner is to be executed. I compel Robot Man's Aspect that he needs to follow this order "To The Letter". He accepts, gains a Fate Point, the meeting doesn't even finish and he's up and out of the room to kill the prisoner.
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And there you go, the scene closes and this turns into an awesome attempt at an escape plan by some of the PCs with the prisoner, against the members of their own base. But best of all, an awesome scene when Robot Man confronts Resident Manipulator in his quarters as he's trying to sneak the prisoner out. I hope that illustrated some stuff about how the Fate Point Economy works.
p.s. Holy crap, my Resident Manipulator is Caleb and Robot Man is Aaron! I didn't realize this till now lol
Edit: Replaced image of char. sheet with one that wasn't shit-tastic
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Where did you get the fate core mecha rules? Good writeup btw!
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Thanks, all, for the help clarifying that! I will now stand tall and make that person eat crow. Or not talk to me again. Either way works for me!
By the way, has anyone read/played Atomic Robo yet? I have the PDF, but I haven't had any time to look through it. It doesn't help that Ross posted the alternate power tier rules for Base Raiders, which is now forcing me to go back to playing that . . damn monster (my players wanted to play it again anyway, so it's all good).
It also doesn't help that tomorrow is Free RPG Day, so I am helping my FLGS out by demoing Fate Accelerated. It is "BAD DUDES," and it is basically my love-letter to arcade-style beat-em-up games. Boosts are replaced by random power-ups, and each player has one free stunt: Insert Fate Point to Continue. There are also character aspects that form. . umm. . ."strong" relationships between players. Should be fun. :-*
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I am also super curious where that mecha sheet came from. it looks pretty well produced which tells me it might actually be a retail product..but I haven't actually seen a fate engine come across the table that has that in it
(I know of Mecha vs Kajui and Apotheosis Drive, but neither of them look quite like that).
I am also running a FAE game at Free RPG day at my local comic shop. A FAE variant of Venture City Stories Supers game, that will have the players actually developing the bad guy they fight. :)
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Where did you get the fate core mecha rules? Good writeup btw!
Thank you! My players are fantastic and they really made the game awesome without me having to do anything (Mostly by being suspicious of literally ANYONE). I'm going to be playtesting my own game soon and I hope to cajole them into letting me record the sessions for "feedback" and, hopefully, posterity.
My Fate Core Mecha rules are actually the rules for Camelot Trigger in Fate Worlds: Worlds In Shadow -> http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/119384/Fate-Worlds-Worlds-in-Shadow
How you build the Mecha themselves is straight from their rules, I came up with my own Skill List, Stress/Consequences, Repair Rules, Hex Movement, Contacts & Resources. Uhhh i guess I changed almost the whole game except how you build the systems lol.
I am also super curious where that mecha sheet came from. it looks pretty well produced which tells me it might actually be a retail product..but I haven't actually seen a fate engine come across the table that has that in it
(I know of Mecha vs Kajui and Apotheosis Drive, but neither of them look quite like that).
Hey, glad to hear you like the char. sheet, here is what the second page of it looks like: http://i.imgur.com/Xx4qqlC.png
I actually made the character sheet myself, the Mecha Art is just some Concept Art from the Armored Core series (I'm a huge fan on Mecha, especially that series of games).
Can't say I've looked at Mecha vs. Kaiju, but I have Apotheosis Drive X. Unfortunately, I am not a fan of ADX and kind of regret the purchase. It didn't do what I wanted for a mecha game, and there is no character sheet anywhere in the box. Hence why I just gutted the mecha rules from Camelot Trigger and whipped up my own version for anything else.
I am also running a FAE game at Free RPG day at my local comic shop. A FAE variant of Venture City Stories Supers game, that will have the players actually developing the bad guy they fight. :)
That's awesome. The game I'm currently working on will have the players generate everything from the world, the antagonists and the culture of their group who are tasked with protecting the world. I'd love to hear how this game worked out for you.
In this Mecha game every time a support character came up, we actually stopped the game and "Cast" the character by talking about who would play them, giving them a couple of aspects. Within like 2 sessions we had a full base of supporting characters who were fleshed out. It was one of the best parts of the game, so I think it could be extended to everything really.
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Thanks for all the great information.
Between that and listening to the Base Raider AP's I'm feeling alot more confident in knowing how a character is made and i've made a few sample NPC's.
Allow me to present them for your ridicule...
These NPC's were created to have skills slightly higher than a starting level Player character.
William Pierce
High Concept: Young kid falls face first into sword and sorcery.
Trouble Aspect: Confident to a Fault.
Background Aspect: Chicks dig musicians.
Background Aspect: No one dies today!
Background Aspect: You're gonna go far kid.
Athletics +2
Burglary +1
Deceive +2
Empathy +1
Fight +3
Investigate +2
Lore +4
Notice +2
Physique +3
Provoke +2
Rapport +4
Shoot +2
Stealth +3
Will +3
Or
Akkar The Red
High Concept: Recently Liberated Minotaur Pit Fighter
Trouble Aspect: When in an unfamiliar land: Violence Solves Everything
Background Aspect: Closet Academic.
Background Aspect: I will break you.
Background Aspect: My loyalty knows no bounds
Stunt Cost 2: Minotaur Toughness - Armor Rating of 2.
Stunt Cost 1: SPEAR! - Once per combat you can change zones and attack an enemy using Physique instead of fight.
Athletics +3
Fight +4
Lore +3
Notice +2
Physique +5
Provoke +2
Will +1
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I think these look good, overall
Pierce looks alright. His High Concept is a little clumsy though. Maybe go with "Young Kid Out Of His Depth". It says about the same thing because "Sword and Sorcery" should be said in your Game/World Aspects so he doesn't need it in there too.
The other thing is both yours and my own adapted version of the concept I don't think leave much room for him to invoke it in his favour. I would maybe make it something like "The Brave Upstart In Over His Head". At least he's brave, he's still implied to be young but also kind of gutsy, with some gumption to him. But he still is deep in things he doesn't understand.
Following that, I think he's good. Even though "You're Gonna Go Far, Kid" is a little on the vague side I was definitely able to think of instances for invoke/compel so it passes.
Akkar's high concept is great and what you should shoot for every time. My only issue is with part of his Trouble. Adding the "when in an unfamiliar land" piece to it makes it way too narrow. Just "Violence Solves Everything" is great.
Also, I'm pretty sure Spear doesn't work well as a single cost stunt because it allows you to move a zone AND and replace a skill with another. I think a good fit is just to make it a "Charge" type stunt for 1 refresh, where it's "When you move a zone and attack someone, you can use Physique instead of Fight".
I won't comment on Minotaur Toughness since I think categorically that stunts that give Armor or Weapon rating bonus flat out without a specific circumstance narrowing it's use should not be done. For a good argument against this in the book go check out the example when one of the character's wants a similar stunt when attacking with his family heirloom sword.
P.s. Sorry for the terrible format. Answered from my phone
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Gotcha, I was basing the Minotaur stunt mostly off of the Super hero page in the fate toolkit information. I could see The Minotaur toughness stunt being unbalanced since most others don't have that option so it might require some balance tweaking, maybe drop the armor rating while still requiring the 2 stunt cost.
Actually thanks for pointing out the "In the familiar land" clause, that's actually a hang over from his first trouble so yeah I'm gonna delete that one.
I like your suggestions for Pierce as well, his High Concept was tough for me. I like yours better.
Does the once per combat clause of the "Spear!" stunt not feel restrictive enough? I suppose it could be cranked up to a two cost stunt.
Still just feeling my way around balancing stunts.
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Does the once per combat clause of the "Spear!" stunt not feel restrictive enough? I suppose it could be cranked up to a two cost stunt.
Whoooooops, that is my mistake. I did not even see the once per combat requirement. I think that actually balances it out enough, I certainly don't think it's beneficial enough to warrant you give it the "once per session" restriction.
As far as Armor Rating. If you hang out in the Fate Core G+ community, the conversation about Weapon & Armor Ratings is a constant, some of us have tried to come up with our own takes on it several times, so I definitely don't you're doing it wrong or anything. He is an NPC, so the +2 Armor Rating could be justifiable in that sense, might not be a bad idea to see how it works in play, and if you see it's too much just avoid it another time.
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I think the armor stunt was something I planned to test out in play and if it seemed too strong I'd tone it down.
Not gonna offer that to PC's.
Now question is does a stunt that allows you to shoot magic bolts from your hands count as a 1 cost stunt. This is another NPC so it might be fine once again but I was wondering from a player perspective how it seems.
Magic Blast: Can use "Skill" to make ranged attacks that originate from your person.
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I think that's a straightforward use of a 1 refresh stunt. I think the times that I have seen it are especially when there is a special Skill you have to take for it. Say "Sorcery", cause it means you also have to use up one of your precious Skill Rating Slots for it.
That way there is an extra cost due to the advantage that it replaces the "Shoot" skill for you in basically every situation.
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I enjoy this systems character/npc creation greatly.
Very fun narrative options.
Thanks again!
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Now question is does a stunt that allows you to shoot magic bolts from your hands count as a 1 cost stunt. This is another NPC so it might be fine once again but I was wondering from a player perspective how it seems.
So I think you're coming at this from the wrong direction. Why does the character need a stunt to emulate the Shoot skill when the Shoot skill exists?
Just let them use Shoot. Flavor it however you like it. If the character has an aspect to the effect of 'I'm A Magic Dude', then since function follows fiction he can shoot magic, because he is a magic dude. You don't need a stunt specifically for that.
Now when stunts come in handy is when you want to add functionality to a skill. For example, Echoing Voice is a stunt I might give to a particular character to allow them to make physical attacks with Provoke alongside mental attacks. This doesn't replace Shoot because it does not allow the character to Overcome Obstacles or Create Advantages the way they could with Shoot, just attack. And the first thing you learn when you get deep into FATE is that attacking is one of the least powerful things characters can do.
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I suppose that's also a fair way to look at it.
I just wasn't sure how much of it to "assume".
My first instinct was to swap it to a different skill because in my mind I was stuck with the idea that using shoot generically would make the character good with all kinds of ranged weapons and flavor wise that was against my first instincts, but I suppose if I get over little hangovers like "proficiency" from Dungeons and Dragons I would be better with this system.
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This is FATE, there are no 'proficiencies'. A character can use and is good with using things that make sense given their role, the plot and their aspects. :D
If the name Shoot bothers you, change the name of the skill for that character to 'Magical Blast'. Change the type of advantages it can create to magical ones, describe the mechanical effect as a bolt of magical energy, and you're good.
Also, is the character really going to be around long enough for the fact that they may or may not know how to use ranged weapons to matter? The fact that you're preparing a character with an attack skill to deal with the PCs seems to indicate their lifespan on the tabletop may be limited. ;D
Edit: In fact, here's a pregen character I'm working on for an upcoming FAE game, it deals with this very issue.
Nausicaa, The Burner Of Ships
High Concept: Paranoid Pyrokinetic Princess Exiled Far From Home
Trouble: Everything I Care About Turns To Ash
Character Aspects:
Sometimes, You Have To Lead By Example
The Path Home Is Long And Fraught With Peril
My Regal Presence Is Unmistakable
Approaches:
Careful +0 Clever +2
Flashy +3 Forceful +2
Quick +1 Sneaky +1
Stunts:
The Galaxy Will Burn Before Me: When Nausicaa makes a Flashy Attack using her Pyrokinesis that succeeds with style, she can spend a fate point to prevent the target from checking a stress box to absorb harm - they'll have to spend a consequence or be taken out!
I Shall Fear No Flame: Nausicaa is immune to damage from Fire and her own Pyrokinesis, and gets a +2 bonus to all Defend rolls whenever she has the aspect 'On Fire'. Note that fire is extraordinarily dangerous in space, and she's not immune to other nasty side effects of fire like suffocating from lack of air!
Forge The Alliance: Nausicaa gets +1 to Flashily Create An Advantage or Overcome An Obstacle by addressing a crowd of people.
So this character can attack using Pyrokinesis. She's not able to do this because she has those two stunts related to the Pyrokinesis, she can do this because her high concept says that she's Pyrokinetic. Aspects are always true, and function follows fiction. This system is as complicated or as simple as you want to make it. I prefer to keep stunts for things that make characters dramatically better at doing cool things or break set rules of the game.
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Yeah as pointed out function very much follows form and depends on the nature of how the game is meant to run. If you want to run it easy, let the aspects define the limits and everything else tie back to it.
if you want magic to be more rare and limited..then make it a stunt..their are examples of that for fate core within the descriptions of optional magic system that cost stunt points, but they usually allow a share more versatility than a simple attack..
But if its basic..even in the core book it references that with fantasy scenario with the wizard they build..who does magic because 'aspect.'
Fate can be as simple..or as complicated as you want to make it. :)
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Getting rid of the D&D thinking where everything is built like a PC is important, because it allows you to do some AWESOME stuff.
Someone over on the SA forums (I would credit him but the site is currently down) wrote this gem, and I think it's fantastic.
How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love FATE -or- The Treasure Map Battle
Just wanted to share a thought process about something I was working on...
The other day I was putting together a rough outline for a Legends of Anglerre five-encounter one-shot, and one of the "scenes" I wanted to do was the players following a treasure map on a uncharted tropical isle. But when I sat down to actually work out the scene, I realized I didn't want it to be a case of just having the PCs roll their "Figure Out Map" skill until they reached an arbitrary number of successesn because that's boring and pointless.
So I started thinking in terms of the Fate Fractal, and I realize what I really wanted was a challenge to the characters where they were trying to wrest infromation from a map designed to confound anyone besides the original mapper.
In other words, I wanted them to fight the treasure map.
Naturally, there were a few things I had to figure out for this to work. First off, how would the map fight back? It's not like it can grab a sword. What it can do, however, is lead the characters astray. It can trick them into quicksand, accidentally lead them into gator nests, or just get them so turned around they wind up wandering for hours under the hot sun. To simulate this, the map has an effective "attack skill" of +2; it's attacks are things like misdirection and sending the PCs into dangerous locations.
Another thing I had to figure out was how the map could "win" and how it could "lose". The map losing was easy; the PCs find what they were looking for. But how can it win? Well, technically, it can't. But it really doesn't need to. Yeah, if the players roll really poorly and spend too much time screwing around, the map can run them out of Stress. But that's pretty unlikely. This isn't about a win/lose, it's about making the treasure hunt interesting.
So how do the players attack the map? Well, the obvious answer is with skills like Survival or Academics, but there's no reason to prevent players from using other skills. ("I use my sword to cut a path through the jungle to make this easier; can I roll my Melee Weapons skill?")
The map really couldn't take Consequences; it would still have Stress of course. I figure 6 boxes should be enough to keep things interesting but not tedious.
Thinking a bit more on the map's attacks; I realized that since the map is leading the PCs into dangerous situations, "attack" is going to have a broader meaning. I can have the map's attacks be things like "you wander in the hot sun for an hour, take 2 Stress" or "You slip on some rocks crossing a wide stream, take 3 Stress", but what about other hazards? Well, critters can of course be represented by minions, but what about something like quicksand?
Well, if I can represent the map as a creature, I can do the same with quicksand; Again, it has a "Quicksand" skill of, say, +3, and its first attack is always a maneuver to grab the target. If it succeeds, then the target is sinking. If it fails, the PC has an action to get away from it or the quicksand will make the same attack again. When a target starts sinking, it takes one stress per round until someone pulls him out (i.e., removing the "Sinking" Aspect). Of course, if the PCs don't take measures to be cautious, the quicksand can make attacks against them, too.
The thing about these "special attacks" is that they pretty much have to be dealt with before the PCs can continue, so if the PCs are dealing with a special attack, they can't attack the map until the threat is dealt with, and the threat takes over the map's slot in initative until polished off.
So here's the epic enemy and bane of adventurers everywhere: The Treasure Map!
Stress [] [] [] [] [] []
The map has an effective skill of +2 for any skill roll it needs to make.
Special Attacks:
Misdirection
"How many palm trees shaped like W's are there on this bloody island?"
- Turns out that the landmarks the guy who made the map picked aren't as unique as he thought. The map clears out two of its stress boxes. This can only be done once.
When Animals Attack (Because You're In Their Nest) [No attack roll required]
"Uh, Phil...that's not a log..."
- That was a bad place to stand. The map summons some minions that immediately attack the party; the players cannot attack the map again until the minions are dealt with in one form or another. Pick whatever you think would be funniest from the following list:
- Crocodile (Good): Aspects: Jaws Like A Vice, Thick Hide. Skills: Fight +3, Physique +2, Stealth +1, Athletics +1.
- Python (Fair): Aspects: Sharp Fangs, Lightning Fast. Skills: Fight +2, Athletics +1, Stealth +1. Likes to use its Athletics skill to put the “Wrapped Up” aspect on prey.
- Insect Swarms x 5 (Average): Aspect: Small Stinging Insects. Skills: Fight +1. Will form up as a mook group.
- Big Ass Spiders x 3 (Fair) : Aspects: Poisonous bite, Leaper. Skills: Stealth +2, Athletics +1, Fight +1. These are small-dog sized spiders who can jump far to attack their prey. When you get bitten by a Big Ass Spider, you must make a Physique roll or you gain the “Poisoned” aspect.
- Gorillas (Good): Aspects: Lord of the Jungle, Stronger Than Any Man. Skills: Physique +3, Athletics+2, Fight+1, Stealth +1.
Sinkholes
"Hey, why are you all getting taller?"
- That was a really bad place to stand. The map "summons" a sinkhole, a special "creature" that gets an immediate action. The sinkhole has four stress boxes and an effective Fight skill of +2 and a unique stunt “Pull Down” (see below). The sinkhole's first move against a target is always to Create Advantage to place the "Trapped in quicksand" aspect on the target. Following that, the sinkhole will attack the target. If other PCs try to free a trapped friend without taking precautions (grabbing a branch, for example), the sinkhole can make an attack against them on its next action. The sinkhole can make multiple attacks against valid targets in the same zone as itself as one action.
“Pull Down”: When the sinkhole attacks, the result of the attack roll is treated as an Obstacle against moving away from the sinkhole.
Booby Trap
"I guess he really didn't want anyone else finding the treasure, huh?"
-It might be a rope trap that leaves you hanging by one leg from a tree; it might be a pit of sharpened sticks. Either way, the target has to make a Notice roll with Great (+4) difficulty. If the character doesn’t see the trap, then it attacks with an effective Fight of +3. If it’s a deadly trap, it does +2 stress on a hit.
The Roundabout Way
-"Oh...I guess that really was a shortcut we passed two hours ago. Sorry, guys."
Looks like you've been wasting time, energy, and resources as the map leads you around the long way. This attack rolled once, but is applied to everyone in the group."
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Stuff like that is kind of what made me want to try the system in the first place.
I have this idea for using this system to stat out a faction or group as an abstract.
Meaning the company gets skills and and aspects ect.
It's just not something I've gotten around to yet.
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Stuff like that is kind of what made me want to try the system in the first place.
I have this idea for using this system to stat out a faction or group as an abstract.
Meaning the company gets skills and and aspects ect.
It's just not something I've gotten around to yet.
The Fate Fractal is the best part of the system to me. Even though Aspects are genius, I think the Fractal is pure genius and so simple.
If you check out the Evil Hat official site they have a section with free supplement downloads and one of them is Factions. It basically sets it up so you can do exactly what you talk about pretty easily. I looked through it and there were some things I would change but I imagine with that supplement plus their "Drops In A Pond" in the same section you could play a game where the players are key members of a faction, then you zoom out and do the Faction stuff, and then have the giant battle with Drops In A Pond and the players as the significant factors in that battle.
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Awesome!
The faction rules are literally what I was already building in my head.
The skills are nice and defined which is great. So yes now I just gotta wait till next Thursday to get the game under way.
We finished character creation last night so it's all play time now.