The Role Playing Public Radio Forums
General Category => RPGs => : Phelanar May 29, 2009, 11:40:14 PM
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So I've been looking at Trail of Cthulhu the last few days and I'm really digging it. I like the rules and the art is really awesome. I know there are a lot of CoC people here, so I kind of wondered how people thought it stacked up or if it's apples and oranges with CoC.
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I personally play Trail of Cthulhu. If I understand right, CoC works on a percentile system, and my group is really iffy on that.
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I personally play Trail of Cthulhu. If I understand right, CoC works on a percentile system, and my group is really iffy on that.
that's a weird thing to get hung up on.
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Chaosium's Call of Cthulhu is a percentile dice system. I love it. It feels very natural to me. I have a 60% chance to climb that rocky wall. Or, normally I have a 60% chance to climb that wall, but due to darkness and the heavy rain from the thunderstorm, my chance has been reduced to 30%.
I am very interested to try the Gumshoe system used in Trail of Cthulhu. I too want to get that game.
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I personally play Trail of Cthulhu. If I understand right, CoC works on a percentile system, and my group is really iffy on that.
that's a weird thing to get hung up on.
Yeah. I may not leap for joy with percentile systems, but at least they have the advantage of being straightforward and easy to understand.
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THey think it's more complicated than it is, or they just don't want to do basic math~~But if they don't wanna play I can't run it.
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THey think it's more complicated than it is, or they just don't want to do basic math~~But if they don't wanna play I can't run it.
If you had any interest in running a ToC game via pbp, I would be first to sign-up.
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THey think it's more complicated than it is, or they just don't want to do basic math~~But if they don't wanna play I can't run it.
If you had any interest in running a ToC game via pbp, I would be first to sign-up.
I'd fight you to be first to sign up. Games like CoC and ToC are much better suited to pbp than more action oriented ones. And I've been seriously craving some Mythos goodness.
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I might see about setting that up~~
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Basic math is a big hang up for my players too. I've noticed that even the players I know to be smart kind of turn their brains of during play. Not just the choices they make (gamer logic and all) but their actually thinking processes seem to be less sharp on things like addition and subtraction.
I love all gaming systems. I like the feeling of stacking more and more points to ridiculus levels with d20, I like knowing my pure odds in percentile systems, I like the thrill of rolling lower than the target score without any modifers to the number on the dice themselves, and I love forming massive dice pools with d10s and d6s or riding the edge with just one or two dice.
Anyway, back on point, I like the Gumshoe system but it, like so many other games, is something new and different, and that makes my players start reaching for their torches and pitch forks.
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I personally play Trail of Cthulhu. If I understand right, CoC works on a percentile system, and my group is really iffy on that.
that's a weird thing to get hung up on.
Yeah. I may not leap for joy with percentile systems, but at least they have the advantage of being straightforward and easy to understand.
Rolemaster is a percentile system... ::)
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I mean that the basic percentile mechanic is easy to understand, not necessarily the rules surrounding it. If you have a skill at 60, it's extremely intuitive (for most people) to turn that into thinking "I have a 60% chance at success".
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I think my original aversion to the Gumshoe system (or, should I say, GUMSHOE system), was that I thought that having only one dice (and a six-sided dice at that!) would be too simple. And, granted, I haven't run it yet, but I actually think that it's great. I believe the simplicity really just kind of facilitates the storytelling.
But, y'know, you'll probably get very similar experiences with both systems in terms of story. Not to mention how easy it is to convert one to the other. This post doesn't really have a point, just that both are probably enjoyable and the systems work well to facilitate storytelling.
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Someone I played with didn't want to play Call of Cthulhu 'cause you got crazier as you progressed. But, man, isn't that the fun of it all?
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Someone I played with didn't want to play Call of Cthulhu 'cause you got crazier as you progressed. But, man, isn't that the fun of it all?
Abso-frigin'-lutely
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Yeah when i was asked by my group about CoC i kind of..misled them. I didn't explain that guns are useless, or that things will drive you crazy, or that in the 1920s there were no white mages with resurrection spells.
So they recklessly accumulate mythos skill, make promises to every cult member they find, and ALWAYS run around with their revolvers fully loaded. While i have a great time describing their deaths!
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Tom ran a game of CoC last night. I died.
My advice: If you go into a Nazi nuclear Azathoth powered reactor, make sure the guy outside the reactor chamber didn't just go insane and turn against you, so he can't lock you inside the reactor gates back to Azathoth's realm.
That's bad.
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Tom ran a game of CoC last night. I died.
My advice: If you go into a Nazi nuclear Azathoth powered reactor, make sure the guy outside the reactor chamber didn't just go insane and turn against you, so he can't lock you inside the reactor gates back to Azathoth's realm.
That's bad.
Is it bad? Or is it an amazingly hilarious and inovative way to have a character killed?
I vote for the latter
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Tom ran a game of CoC last night. I died.
My advice: If you go into a Nazi nuclear Azathoth powered reactor, make sure the guy outside the reactor chamber didn't just go insane and turn against you, so he can't lock you inside the reactor gates back to Azathoth's realm.
That's bad.
Is it bad? Or is it an amazingly hilarious and inovative way to have a character killed?
I vote for the latter
I second that. The motion carries, "dying in a nuclear reactor" is now officially hilarious and inovative.
Congratulations Ross; you must be so proud.
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That's horribly unrealistic. If he was a good DM and staying true to life, you would've come out of that nuclear reactor with super powers.
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That's horribly unrealistic. If he was a good DM and staying true to life, you would've come out of that nuclear reactor with super powers.
Yeah... epilepsy.
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That's horribly unrealistic. If he was a good DM and staying true to life, you would've come out of that nuclear reactor with super powers.
An Azathoth powered nuclear reactor. I don't want to imagine what kind of 'super' powers I would get from that.
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That's horribly unrealistic. If he was a good DM and staying true to life, you would've come out of that nuclear reactor with super powers.
An Azathoth powered nuclear reactor. I don't want to imagine what kind of 'super' powers I would get from that.
After surviving the nuclear event, you gain the ability to speak aloud a magic word and spew forth giant writhing maggots from your arse!
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I used the search button...
I'm taking the dive and I'm going to run the Australia and Shanghai chapters of Masks using the Trail of Cthulhu rules.
Any advice as far as combat in GUMSHOE or other mechanical considerations? Also I'd be interested in conversion tips if anyone has any (between Trail and Call), otherwise I've got my hamfists ready.
Edit: I have the conversion guide thingy but I was wondering if there is anything I should keep an eye out for or simplify for Trail.
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listen to our fear itself games to get an idea of what combat is like in GUMSHOE - it's pretty quick and brutal usually
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Combat in gumshoe is easy. Roll a single die, you hit or you don't. Roll another single die for damage, subtract monster's armor. Then the monsters kills the PCs. Easy!
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Ross- Yes I've listened many times to those games but sure I'll give them a refresher. Thank you for introducing me to the GUMSHOE system.
Tad- Alright, that is what I'm looking forward to, increased brutality.
Any 1930s considerations for an exciting Australia or Shanghai that I should be aware of?
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Australia is a deadly fucking place without any supernatural stuff. Difficult terrain, dangerous animals (kangaroos will fuck you up beyond repair!), hot days and cold nights, plus completely bizarre weather patterns. Surprise your players, especially if they go out unprepared. If they go prepared, make sure to reward them for their preparedness by making them use each and every piece of equipment they brought "just in case". They'll feel like geniuses of countering of all our "elaberate traps" and as a result be in a better mood when your sanity ripping horrors attack them.
Shanghai in the 1930s was awesome! Tons of money, people for freakin' everywhere, and everybody (by which I mean China, the UK, Japan, and the USA) wanted it. Throw weird things at your players, stuff from all over the world. Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghailander#Republic_of_China
By the way, combat is only brutal if you can get the players to fight the monster. The last two games of gumshoe I've run the players where too afraid to fight the monster.
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Australia is a deadly fucking place without any supernatural stuff.
Don't forget dropbears, upstones, and hoop snakes. They hadn't all been hunted to rarity back in the 1930s, so people died a lot more regularly from attacks, instead of the odd tourist who gets taken out on a bushwalk.
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Australia is a deadly fucking place without any supernatural stuff.
Don't forget dropbears, upstones, and hoop snakes. They hadn't all been hunted to rarity back in the 1930s, so people died a lot more regularly from attacks, instead of the odd tourist who gets taken out on a bushwalk.
Never underestimate the dropbear menace.
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Thanks all! The game will eventually be posted on the community site, but not for at least a month.
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So I picked up the Trail of Cthulhu rulebook, mostly because it's CoC but also because it got so many awards. I was surprised to find out that it's actually a bit difficult to read! They tell you how to make a character using build points, yes, but the amount of points you put into general abilities was only mentioned once in the middle of a paragraph in an obscure place so it was difficult to find again. They do that thing where they put framed sections of text that are an aside to the main read, but that means there can be very little of it to read on one page.
And when I did get that, it was difficult to understand the concept of spending pool points on checks. I'm still not sure I do understand that! Pool points are drawn from where you spend your build points? Yes, it makes sense I suppose (you get less focus on something if you use that skill a lot?), but it's just not very clear from the book.
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you spend investigative skill points to gain additional information or benefits from a given clue or situation.
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Don't get me wrong, it's a good read, just requires a bit of backtracking every now and then. I guess most RPG books do.
So, just to make sure I understand, let's say I put 3 build points into the ability "Reassurance". During a story, I would automatically reassure some foxy dame enough to continue the story and gain a clue, just for having the ability.
But if I spend 1 of those 3 points, I could potentially (keeper allowing) make her think I'm a damned hero and she'll give me some money or tell me some more info, etc. Yes? I'd only get back up to 3 in that ability after the game finishes, and the abilities refresh.
I'll have to read some scenarios, see what they say.
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Don't get me wrong, it's a good read, just requires a bit of backtracking every now and then. I guess most RPG books do.
So, just to make sure I understand, let's say I put 3 build points into the ability "Reassurance". During a story, I would automatically reassure some foxy dame enough to continue the story and gain a clue, just for having the ability.
But if I spend 1 of those 3 points, I could potentially (keeper allowing) make her think I'm a damned hero and she'll give me some money or tell me some more info, etc. Yes? I'd only get back up to 3 in that ability after the game finishes, and the abilities refresh.
I'll have to read some scenarios, see what they say.
That's my interpretation of the ability except i might make "recruiting" a two point spend and a one point would be like she gives you her car or lets you hide in her hotel (something of that nature).
Otherwise I've decided to treat investigative point spends like the use of the luck roll or just giving players more story shaping power. One of the other examples (in the Keeper's Resource book) is like you spend some points in Art and at the people around you are enamored by your mastery of Manet vs Monet that they trust you in other matters (you get a dedicated 2 point pool of reassurance, flattery, or some other social skill type deal).
I'm running my first game tonight and in about two weeks it'll be up on the Community Site if you want to check it out.
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I think Trail of Cthulhu, and other GUMSHOE games as for as I've seen, have the mecanic of spending resources during the investigation for various reasons. The first is that it makes sure that no single player can steal the spotlight from the rest of the players since they are limited in what resources and skills they can use and how many times they can use it.
It also means that the strategies that the investigators take need to keep varying. For example, they will not always be able to talk their way out of everything- sometimes they will be forced to hide, use their contacts, fight, or run away.
The resource management is also a nod to horror games where you need to think ahead in regards to how many resourcfes you are willing to spend now, knowing that it might mean that in the future you will not have that resource to spend.
For one part, I like the GUMSHOE system in that it always makes sure that the PCs get the main clues, though then they need to spend skill points to analyze the clues. However, I much prefer to go the Masks of Nyarlathotep route in that it adds an overabundance of clues and makes the character roll for them to find them: as a player there is less of a sense of being railroaded since there is still a chance to succeed or fail in the clue-gathering aspect, and as a GM you know that players are still receiving a bunch of clues that will eventually lead the players in the same direction.
I also like to reuse clues- if the players for some reason or another manage to botch all their rolls to find a clue, I'll put the clue in another scene so they get another chance to find it. That way, if they miss an important clue they will eventually find it even if it is later in the investigation.
I'd reccomend reading this essay: http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/three-clue-rule.html Very informative and has great tips for GMs.
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Thanks to you two ^, that's a nice summary and some good info.
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Just ran my first game of it last night. We began with the Australia chapter and made it to Buckley's ghost in three hours.
The players appreciate the system more than I thought they would and the point spends went alright. I'm letting everyone tweak their characters now that they know how it plays.
One thing I learned was to ALWAYS blow all the points for bad guys. There is no point in saving their scuffling, weapons, firearms, athletics, etc. points for later on, best to just whomp on the investigators right off the bat.
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Your players actually meet the badguys in combat? What a bunch of suicidal nuts. Know what my last Gumshoe group did at their climax? Locked several (probably) innoccent people in an abandoned basement, where they died horribly of starvation, dehydration, or killing one another, the players never found out. Step Two was gunning down the final member of the "enemy cult" in the streets of Edinburgh, three people with guns riddling an unarmed guy full of holes.
And it was the right move!
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The party is:
A Rear Admiral
A Swag-man
A Journalist
A Priest
Another player is also a priest but wasn't there last night. The players generally charge forward guns blazing, much more PULP than Purist.
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Rear admiral I have not seen in a CoC game before. Hmm. I'm gonna have to listen to these games.
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Check the community in two weeks for the ToC game, if you're THAT excited for it.
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Heya, when is this community game going up? I'm intrigued.
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It is already up, Masks of Nyarlathotep Game 21: Enter Swagman
We played the New York, London, Cairo, Kenya chapters using regular BRP CoC and are switching over for Australia and Shanghai.
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Sweet, I'll check it out! Thanks!