The Role Playing Public Radio Forums

General Category => General Chaos => : PirateLawyer September 29, 2015, 02:22:42 PM

: Delta Green kickstarter
: PirateLawyer September 29, 2015, 02:22:42 PM
It's live.

And it has just about raised its initial funding goal of 40K in 4 hours.

I'm now a bit poorer.

I wish Arc Dream had organized this campaign a bit differently - there is some lack of information at the outset for some key things - but there's no doubt this will be a raging success.

I wish I had the 5K lying around for the Alphonse Lives pledge level. :P
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: Gorkamorka September 29, 2015, 02:26:18 PM
Link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/arcdream/delta-green-the-role-playing-game (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/arcdream/delta-green-the-role-playing-game)
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: Tim September 29, 2015, 03:51:17 PM
Backed.
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: Alethea September 29, 2015, 05:17:54 PM
Well... I'm glad the options to get in a game with the creators are a) almost all gone and b) so bloody expensive, or I'd be seriously debating about plopping down money  that may not exist in a few days for me.

Bloody House Republicans throwing temper-tantrums and screwing over contractors, employees, and the rest of the American public... <grumble, grumble>
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: Twisting H September 29, 2015, 05:24:46 PM
Excited!!!

Congratulations to the Delta Green team! May the success be continuous.
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: trinite September 29, 2015, 05:52:03 PM
I'm in for the book and PDFs!
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: Review Cultist September 29, 2015, 06:30:12 PM
Same.

Also Woot! Been waiting since Gencon for this to launch.
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: The Lost Carol September 29, 2015, 09:29:53 PM
I plan on backing it, just not sure for how much yet. I own so little of the present of Delta Green, and with how much everyone likes the fiction I'd like to pick up the pdfs of the old fiction (especially because it's still relevant, which I think is a great move for Delta Green II instead of retcon/new universe.), but it's a shit-ton of money for me to drop on the Agent's Handcover + pdfs + addons pdfs, not even mentioning the Fall of Delta Green or the Case Officer's Handbook and not even thinking about adding on Sense. Not sure what I'll end up getting, just might have to sell some stuff.
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: PirateLawyer September 29, 2015, 09:40:42 PM
I plan on backing it, just not sure for how much yet. I own so little of the present of Delta Green, and with how much everyone likes the fiction I'd like to pick up the pdfs of the old fiction (especially because it's still relevant, which I think is a great move for Delta Green II instead of retcon/new universe.), but it's a shit-ton of money for me to drop on the Agent's Handcover + pdfs + addons pdfs, not even mentioning the Fall of Delta Green or the Case Officer's Handbook and not even thinking about adding on Sense. Not sure what I'll end up getting, just might have to sell some stuff.

You don't own the old Delta Green stuff? Sacrilege! Worth every penny and pretty affordable now that Pagan has put out some PDFs of their back catalog.

The most cost-effective pledge might be full digital with add-ons for whatever you feel you want.

The old fiction stuff is listed as add-ons too.

Pelgrane's Fall of Delta Green will be great but you certainly can wait for that and buy it from Pelgrane later on as a PDF or book if you want to save some coin right now.

: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: clockworkjoe September 30, 2015, 03:24:41 AM
I edited the video  8)
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: Kamen September 30, 2015, 11:13:22 AM
FINALLY! Finally the Glancy game is MINE! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: PirateLawyer September 30, 2015, 11:23:33 AM
Sick brag.

I wonder if an episode of Unspeakable! will come out this month, or if Shane et al. will appear on any other podcasts to promote the Kickstarter?
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: clockworkjoe September 30, 2015, 05:53:49 PM
Sick brag.

I wonder if an episode of Unspeakable! will come out this month, or if Shane et al. will appear on any other podcasts to promote the Kickstarter?

I will get on them for that.
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: Tim September 30, 2015, 06:25:09 PM
Actually I just cancelled my backing. The project was never in danger of not getting backing so that is not a concern and it is not because I am not interested in eventually procuring Delta Green but the way they have their backer levels structured I don't see a compelling reason to back. At the $50 level I am essentially putting in a pre-order so I think I am going to wait till release and buy the individual items that I want as they are released. It also seems like the stretch goals turn into new add ons not extension of content so if for example it turns out I do decide I want the History of Delta Green when it becomes available I would need to update my pledge to get that. I don't really want to keep monitoring the campaign and keep updating my pledge as new items become available.  I can of course do that but seems like a bit of work or I could wait till the end of the campaign and then back select the items I want or as my current plan is wait till the normal production release of the various items and purchasing them at that point. If enough stuff gets released I might also end up biting at one of the All PDF levels but we shall see how that plays out.

Please don't take this as a me being negative towards the arc dream crew or the choices they have made. They are all smart folks who want to run their kickstarter in a fashion they think is best setup for delivery and they are doing that. I also don't want to give the impression that I think kickstart creators should keep giving away new interesting stuff as stretch goals are released to feed some entitlement on my part. Many kickstarters have fallen to over commitment or over extending from the original core vision and protecting that is important. I wish them luck (although they are not going to need it) and know I will eventually buy the new version and I am sure it will be great so looking forward to getting my hands on it someday.

Of course I need to be honest with myself and say I would not have written this and posted it here if I was not a little annoyed and so I suppose I must be at some level. Perhaps I am looking for folks to argue me out of my course of action. Perhaps I just and an old man yelling at the clouds.

Probably it is the clouds one.
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: PirateLawyer September 30, 2015, 06:53:47 PM
Well since you asked for feedback, Tim, and I'm paid to argue in my day job, I'll point out the following:

1) go read Dennis Detwiller's update (#2, methinks). Go pledge $1 so you can, and follow the project along.

2) there are significant incentives to back the project now, as opposed to waiting for retail distribution. Mainly, the PDF reward tiers get enhanced for EVERYONE as stretch goals are hit. By spending now, you get more value, and so does everyone else who is backing at high enough levels. Essentially spend now to ensure books get made and you'll get at least digital copies of said books.

3) Ask yourself why are you annoyed.

4) repeat items 1-3.

More later when I have more time.
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: Tim September 30, 2015, 07:36:37 PM
I had read update #2 and I get what they are trying to do and in many ways I agree with it. I don't actually want a lot of crap (I never want a shirt or a mug or a pin - please stop offering those) and I want quality content and I want the creators to get paid and not spend time on things that don't add a lot or any value. So in principle I see what they are doing and I actually do support it and think it will work.

On the other hand I just don't see a ton of personal value for me to back. Using the latest stretch goal as an example they are committing to add a new source book that they will sell. At 128 page they are pricing it as $15 for a PDF which I have to assume will be close to the retail value they will sell on Drive Through RPG so I don't think I will be getting it cheaper. So I am not getting a discount here as far as I can tell.

I don't even get much of a 'I helped bring this into the world' because that ship has sailed as this is not a bubble project.

I don't expect me not chipping in $50 is going to take the wind out of the sails of this monster so very likely the stretch goals will hit and cool stuff will get unlocked with out my help.

I will likely get back in $1 just to watch what is going on. As stated I may jump in at the last minute and either pick and choose some add ons or get in on one of the cheaper All PDF options.

My above counter arguments are not strong, I see that but honesty it is where I am at the moment. I was trying to think about what I would find compelling given their stated model and nothing came up. I guess if they had stretch goals that boosted content of the books (the Dracula Dossier did a ton of this but this is of course directly opposed to their core statement) or maybe were offering some discount on the add ons or maybe offered kickstarter only books that could not be obtained outside the campaign that might work but honestly each of those items has issues and I don't advocate any of them.



: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: PirateLawyer September 30, 2015, 09:34:31 PM
With all due respect Tim I don't understand your chain of reasoning.

You make the assertion that you don't see the value of backing the project "because it will fund anyway". The closest analogy I can draw is that of voting in an election where you assume the outcome is not in doubt; a certain candidate is very likely to win so why vote?

If we take the premise that you are a Delta Green fan and want to see the new DG 2.0 flourish, there's a lot of value in backing the project now, because Arc Dream has clearly stated that they are only going to produce books that are funded via this crowdfunding campaign. If you, and others like you, hang back and rely upon the fact that the project will fund and stretch goals will be reached without your participation, doesn't that have a significantly negative impact on the ultimate success of the game? Don't you want to see as many Delta Green books made as possible (go look at their Google document with all the potential books they have in mind!)? The only logical course of action, in my view, is to plunk down at least for one of the all-digital pledges and monitor how the campaign unfolds. You can always change your mind and reduce it later on.
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: Tim September 30, 2015, 11:38:38 PM
I am not saying my reasoning is 100% rational exactly mind you but I reject your analogy to voting as this is not a one side wins contest but rather a funding drive.

I was not aware that Arc Dream is only creating books funded via this kickstarter and then folding up the Delta Green tent. Hearing that, honestly I must be much more of a casual fan than I had thought because I guess I don't care that much. I enjoy the Delta Green setting and the books and they have produced are high quality and I will likely acquire all they produce on some time frame (I have pretty much everything they have produced to date) but if they stopped production at some date in the future my life is not that greatly impacted. I can still run and play Delta Green games with out new material and of course there are many and varied games systems/settings that I can turn my attention to.

After thinking about it all day I guess one of the reason I was annoyed was largely internal. I had been waiting for the DG kickstarter for at least a year plus and backed it with in the first few hours of it launching but in examining the list of back rewards and future books I found very little of it held any interest for me and so felt a bit let down. This is childish reaction and I feel a bit sheepish now and I apologize to anyone having to read my rambling in this thread. I fully expect the kickstarter to be very successful and I wish the Arc Dream folks and backers good luck.
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: PirateLawyer September 30, 2015, 11:55:55 PM
Well, self-knowledge will set you free.

So, who wants to do a death pool?

I think Agent Darren is pining for the fjords.
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: clockworkjoe October 01, 2015, 01:21:07 AM
If it helps, there's a PDF that clearly lists the rewards now: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7001919/Matrix.pdf

This Kickstarter will play a huge role in determining how extensive the future Delta Green line will be - all those source books mentioned in the survey a few days back? They won't happen at all if the Kickstarter doesn't reach those levels.

Arc Dream has made it a point to get books out to KS backers before retail customers, plus backers will probably see new versions of the rules before anyone else.

Darren I give 50% of staying there - the game needs some 'old hands' since Alphonse is gone.

Nancy is beyond a doubt feral by this point. She's gone to her people.

Curtis, the leader of the cowboys, is probably a martyr for the cause at this point. His partner is probably leading the charge now.

Matthew is probably alive, but in hiding or otherwise 'retired' - possible adviser for PCs.

Wu is probably high up in the legit organization.

Mason and any other prominent friendlies are probably gone. Too many enemies and too little protection from DG.
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: The Lost Carol October 01, 2015, 12:58:54 PM
The clarification definitely helps. I'll just need to keep a track of my finances to determine how deep down the rabbit hole I go.

The timeline is a nice addition. With the meta plot being consistent with the previous version that will help make heads or tails of everything.
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: PirateLawyer October 01, 2015, 02:55:21 PM
Please, Ross, see about persuading Shane et al. to post a somewhat expanded list of stretch goals right at the top of the Kickstarter page.

And someone smarter than me should solve the issue of how pledging $80 for the all-new-pdfs level and plugging in an add-on core book is better value than the $150 pledge 1 for a core book + all pdfs level. I mean, I want to give them a whole heap of money but I'm inherently not going to just give them a bonus $20 for, y'know, reasons.
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: clockworkjoe October 02, 2015, 01:42:08 AM
Please, Ross, see about persuading Shane et al. to post a somewhat expanded list of stretch goals right at the top of the Kickstarter page.

And someone smarter than me should solve the issue of how pledging $80 for the all-new-pdfs level and plugging in an add-on core book is better value than the $150 pledge 1 for a core book + all pdfs level. I mean, I want to give them a whole heap of money but I'm inherently not going to just give them a bonus $20 for, y'know, reasons.

I'll mention it to him but I think the reward chart needs to be on top.

The pricing mismatch is a result of the Rising Threats reward tier being added later on. I'll ask about what you will get for the extra $20.
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: clockworkjoe October 02, 2015, 03:00:50 AM
Please, Ross, see about persuading Shane et al. to post a somewhat expanded list of stretch goals right at the top of the Kickstarter page.

And someone smarter than me should solve the issue of how pledging $80 for the all-new-pdfs level and plugging in an add-on core book is better value than the $150 pledge 1 for a core book + all pdfs level. I mean, I want to give them a whole heap of money but I'm inherently not going to just give them a bonus $20 for, y'know, reasons.

I'll mention it to him but I think the reward chart needs to be on top.

The pricing mismatch is a result of the Rising Threats reward tier being added later on. I'll ask about what you will get for the extra $20.

You get the Fall of Delta Green as a PDF.
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: The Lost Carol October 02, 2015, 03:06:46 PM
Oh look, the new stretch goals are all King in Yellow flavored (and Iconoclasts). What a shock.  ;)

I don't suppose if it all gets funded Ross would run that campaign for RPPR? Finally just giving into Carcosa and going hog wild?
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: PirateLawyer October 02, 2015, 04:17:59 PM
Oh look, the new stretch goals are all King in Yellow flavored (and Iconoclasts). What a shock.  ;)

I don't suppose if it all gets funded Ross would run that campaign for RPPR? Finally just giving into Carcisa and going hog wild?

I am cursing the currency exchange rates as I keep putting more money into this Kickstarter.  :(
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: clockworkjoe October 02, 2015, 06:42:23 PM
Oh look, the new stretch goals are all King in Yellow flavored (and Iconoclasts). What a shock.  ;)

I don't suppose if it all gets funded Ross would run that campaign for RPPR? Finally just giving into Carcosa and going hog wild?

fuck yeah I will
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: The Lost Carol October 03, 2015, 12:14:59 PM
Oh look, the new stretch goals are all King in Yellow flavored (and Iconoclasts). What a shock.  ;)

I don't suppose if it all gets funded Ross would run that campaign for RPPR? Finally just giving into Carcosa and going hog wild?

fuck yeah I will

Exxxxxxxcellent. By the way, good job herding cats over in the Kickstarter comments, Ross. Things were kinda getting rowdy in the first few days with the confusion it seemed.
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: clockworkjoe October 03, 2015, 02:55:47 PM
Oh look, the new stretch goals are all King in Yellow flavored (and Iconoclasts). What a shock.  ;)

I don't suppose if it all gets funded Ross would run that campaign for RPPR? Finally just giving into Carcosa and going hog wild?

fuck yeah I will

Exxxxxxxcellent. By the way, good job herding cats over in the Kickstarter comments, Ross. Things were kinda getting rowdy in the first few days with the confusion it seemed.

Thanks. I'm also monitoring threads on rpg.net, SA, and Yog. Social media management yay!
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: PirateLawyer October 03, 2015, 03:21:15 PM
Thanks. I'm also monitoring threads on rpg.net, SA, and Yog. Social media management yay!

What's SA?
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: clockworkjoe October 03, 2015, 04:20:03 PM
Something Awful
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: Alethea October 03, 2015, 06:41:44 PM
Thanks. I'm also monitoring threads on rpg.net, SA, and Yog. Social media management yay!

What's SA?

Something Awful, I think. But what's Yog?
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: PirateLawyer October 03, 2015, 06:46:41 PM
Something Awful, I think. But what's Yog?

Best Lovecraftian (http://www.yog-sothoth.com/articles.html) site on the web!
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: quickstep23 October 03, 2015, 11:13:04 PM
Oh look, the new stretch goals are all King in Yellow flavored (and Iconoclasts). What a shock.  ;)

I don't suppose if it all gets funded Ross would run that campaign for RPPR? Finally just giving into Carcosa and going hog wild?

fuck yeah I will

Hearing this this might be better than finally figuring out the reward tiers (ended up with Rising threats + Fall of Delta Green (Book+PDF))

ow, my wallet.
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: PirateLawyer October 04, 2015, 05:42:22 PM
Genuinely amazed this reached 120K so quickly.

Not tremendously optmistic the campaign will reach a lot more of the big stretch goals, sadly. I hope I'm wrong.
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: Thorn October 10, 2015, 07:46:26 PM
I just noticed this on today's update as a potential reward
"“Lover in the Ice”: Caleb Stokes’ scenario converted to Delta Green: The Role-Playing Game "

Awesome news.  I hope to see this become a reality.
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: The Lost Carol October 16, 2015, 11:51:40 AM
So glad for Caleb. Hope the parrot makes the final cut!

Also Impossible Labdscapes funded! The narrative set up sounds really interesting. I'm not sure we'll get to $260,000 but I'm surprised we got to $180,000 this fast. Who knows?

Carcosa wooooooo
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: theyrcoming4me October 17, 2015, 01:21:16 PM
This maybe a dumb question, where/what tier/what do I have to do to get/unlock/help unlock Lover in the Ice scenario?

Also, mostly unrelated, is there a time line for the DG fiction or what should I read first?
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: PirateLawyer October 17, 2015, 01:30:09 PM
This maybe a dumb question, where/what tier/what do I have to do to get/unlock/help unlock Lover in the Ice scenario?

Also, mostly unrelated, is there a time line for the DG fiction or what should I read first?

I think reading DG fiction in publication order is best.
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: clockworkjoe October 17, 2015, 02:41:24 PM
This maybe a dumb question, where/what tier/what do I have to do to get/unlock/help unlock Lover in the Ice scenario?

Also, mostly unrelated, is there a time line for the DG fiction or what should I read first?

I think reading DG fiction in publication order is best.

The short story anthologies are all stand alone, so read them in order.

I recommend reading the novels in chronological order:

Denied to the Enemy
Rules of Engagement
Through A Glass Darkly

In terms of quality of the short stories, I still haven't finished alien intelligence but the other anthologies are to me:

Extraordinary Renditions
Tales of Failed Anatomies
Darkest Theatres
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: Jace911 October 20, 2015, 03:37:55 PM
I assume The Fall of Delta Green will be publicly available in print at some point? Because I'm planning on backing at the $20 level to get the Agent's Handbook pdf, but next year when I actually have a job I would totally be willing to drop $50 on a hardcover copy of an official GUMSHOE Delta Green book.
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: PirateLawyer October 20, 2015, 03:47:02 PM
I assume The Fall of Delta Green will be publicly available in print at some point? Because I'm planning on backing at the $20 level to get the Agent's Handbook pdf, but next year when I actually have a job I would totally be willing to drop $50 on a hardcover copy of an official GUMSHOE Delta Green book.

I'd imagine Pelgrane Press will be selling it at GenCon next year, and via their webstore down the road. But if it's the latter you'll have S&H to deal with.

This DG kickstarter is one where backing it now for as much as you can ensures you get the stuff, first, without long delays down the road for retail. So I'd recommend trying to scrape up the cash now if you possibly can.
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: Morbid October 26, 2015, 03:06:35 PM
I assume The Fall of Delta Green will be publicly available in print at some point? Because I'm planning on backing at the $20 level to get the Agent's Handbook pdf, but next year when I actually have a job I would totally be willing to drop $50 on a hardcover copy of an official GUMSHOE Delta Green book.

I had a similar question about the other books.  The short answer is (from Ross on another site) - yes, the books will be available, but the plan is for limited print-runs rather than print-on-demands.  So you'll probably want to snap them up pretty soon after release if at all possible.

Pelgrane has done a 4 for 3 deal on books at their GenCon booth in the past.  Otherwise these books don't really go on sale in my experience. 
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: PirateLawyer October 26, 2015, 03:38:55 PM
Honestly at this point if the campaign reaches 300K and unlocks another book pledging for all the PDFs ($80) or all the books + pdfs ($300) is too good of a deal to pass up.
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: Morbid October 26, 2015, 05:16:51 PM
Yeah.  Either package deal is already a really good deal since Deep State unlocked; with PISCES it's crazy good.  But, well, it's a lot of cash all at once as opposed to picking up the books as they come out. 

You can save a bit by doing physical without pdfs (+$220 add-on to a $1 pledge) or all the books except the Agent's Handbook ($250, since the AH material is included in the CO Handbook.)

I'm thinking about The New Age, though.  It'd be the most I've pledged for any KS.. but it's also Delta Green.  So very much Delta Green.

: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: PirateLawyer October 26, 2015, 05:21:15 PM
Yeah.  Either package deal is already a really good deal since Deep State unlocked; with PISCES it's crazy good.  But, well, it's a lot of cash all at once as opposed to picking up the books as they come out. 

You can save a bit by doing physical without pdfs (+$220 add-on to a $1 pledge) or all the books except the Agent's Handbook ($250, since the AH material is included in the CO Handbook.)

I'm thinking about The New Age, though.  It'd be the most I've pledged for any KS.. but it's also Delta Green.  So very much Delta Green.

I've certainly pledged for The New Age. Consider it a long-term investment you'll never regret. Sure, there's some short-term pain, but it'll be worth it.
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: PirateLawyer October 28, 2015, 10:41:40 PM
Wow, it looks as if Falling Towers is going to fund. I thought for sure that'd have to wait a year or two for a future Kickstarter.
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: trinite October 29, 2015, 11:03:33 PM
Well, they got me for $300. Those Arc Dreamers are gonna be busy for a while now!
: Re: Delta Green kickstarter
: Thorn November 01, 2015, 07:24:36 AM
Same here man.