The Role Playing Public Radio Forums
General Category => General Chaos => : Boyos December 19, 2009, 10:04:19 PM
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So, just got done watching Avatar, was pretty good. Me and my wife enjoyed it. what did you guys think of it? did you see it in 3D? We watched it in normal but might go back in a couple weeks and watch the 3d part. anywyas just wondering what everyone thought bout it.
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Saw it in 3D. Spectacular visuals and action especially in 3D but the story was so goddamn thin. Colonial exploitation is such a complex issue and Avatar reduced it to such a retarded black and white issue.
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I hear the game is good, especially when compared to most movie games. You can play a ten foot blue guy.
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Just watched it now. I think I was suitably warned and expected the whole Dances with Wolves and spiritual aspect. The visuals were good (especially CGI Sigorney cat creature) and it was quite enjoyable.
More importantly though, I thought of RPPR during it because 'Go! Go! Go!' count = 2
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Saw it in 3D. Spectacular visuals and action especially in 3D but the story was so goddamn thin. Colonial exploitation is such a complex issue and Avatar reduced it to such a retarded black and white issue.
i feel they prob did that just to make it easyer for little kids to follow. after all there the new tow in McDonalds and im sure theres a whole line of action figures. I seen some of the more adult market items wich look realy cool, but yeah I figured thats the reason they made it more black and white. the more complex part such as the earth has a soul and all living beeings are concected was more for the adults trying to push the propaganda of global warming.
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Saw it in 3D. Spectacular visuals and action especially in 3D but the story was so goddamn thin. Colonial exploitation is such a complex issue and Avatar reduced it to such a retarded black and white issue.
What the fuck do you know about colonial exploitation?
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Saw it in 3D. Spectacular visuals and action especially in 3D but the story was so goddamn thin. Colonial exploitation is such a complex issue and Avatar reduced it to such a retarded black and white issue.
What the fuck do you know about colonial exploitation?
::)
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Shitty metaphores aside, I felt like I'd seen this plot before, across multiple genres
[Hero] starts on [bad guys/military/jocks/townsfolk] side who he think is good. Joins the [good guys/rebels/nerds/supposed monster] and finds out they are super cool. The [good guys/rebels/nerds/supposed monster] find out the [hero] is working for the [bad guys/military/jocks/townsfolk] and feel betrayed. The [bad guys/military/jocks/townsfolk] reject the [hero] and the [hero] does something to redeem himself to the [good guys/rebels/nerds/supposed monster] and challenges the supremacy of the [bad guys/military/jocks/townsfolk], in which there is a final confrontation with the [bad guys/military/jocks/townsfolk] leader. The leader is defeated and we learn [good triumphs over evil/War is bad/Everyone is cool/We were the monsters all along].
Movies off the top of my head that fit this pattern: All of them
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what I dont get is when people see this type of movie they allways have to say its the same story just diffrent people/visuals. sure it may be the same shit new smell but everyone likes it. not every movie is gonna be ground braking plot and awsome new story. It all brakes down to the hide behind a random name on the internet and bam i can call a rose shit and and expect everyone to suck my epeen. whats the point of pointing out the fact that its the same story done over 100 times again. shit starwars was the same story done over 100 times along with most movies that have some form of fantasy or si-fi aspect. if it truly bothers you that its the same story why see it?
Im, not saying anyone here is like that its just crazy that everyone says that. I know im guilty of it, i just dont get why.
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what I dont get is when people see this type of movie they allways have to say its the same story just diffrent people/visuals. sure it may be the same shit new smell but everyone likes it. not every movie is gonna be ground braking plot and awsome new story. It all brakes down to the hide behind a random name on the internet and bam i can call a rose shit and and expect everyone to suck my epeen. whats the point of pointing out the fact that its the same story done over 100 times again. shit starwars was the same story done over 100 times along with most movies that have some form of fantasy or si-fi aspect. if it truly bothers you that its the same story why see it?
Im, not saying anyone here is like that its just crazy that everyone says that. I know im guilty of it, i just dont get why.
Aaarrgh. STORY MATTERS. When you say something like the above, you are also in effect saying that every single song in your favorite genre (rock for example) is identical and Jimi Hendrix is no different than the average high school garage band. You are denying the possibility that some works of pop culture/art have a better structure than others - because you want to put them all in the same amorphous blob that is popular culture. Nothing is good, nothing is bad. Everything is to be judged on the content of its viscera - its explosions, body count, tits and asses, catchphrases, blood and gore and special effects.
CRITICISM MATTERS. Not the generic "THIS FUKKEN RULES/THIS FUKKEN SUCKS" shit you see on the Internet but a more detailed critique of a film's strengths and weaknesses. Ebert is a pretty good writer actually and while I don't always agree with him, he's a good critic.
So it's not the same story every time. Great storytelling creates unique and satisfying variations on a common theme - it seems similar but it has a 'one of a kind' feel to it that lesser works fail to capture. The original Star Wars trilogy was not the same story done over 100 times - it was a unique fusion of Akira Kurosawa films, the best Westerns and many other things. It was something the world had never seen before and that is why it is so important to this day.
Let's look at two movies: Terminator 2 and Avatar - both are sci fi action flicks directed by James Cameron and noted for their high tech special effects.
Terminator 2 has a great story and structure - Avatar has a bad story and structure. I don't want to get into every little detail but here are a few reasons why:
THEME: Terminator 2 has several important themes interwoven with the plot: Fate (can we change our fate?), the nature of humanity, The danger of technology/progress and our inherent warlike nature. For example the theme of humanity is shown throughout by not only the T-800's actions and his education by John Connor but through Sarah Connor's decision not to kill the engineer responsible for Skynet - this is a moral gray area. Is right to kill someone for something they haven't even thought of doing yet? How do you know it's right? These themes are shown through good storytelling and do not distract from the overall story - they enhance it.
In Avatar the themes are very simple (nature good, exploitation bad) even the nature of humanity theme. Jake Sully is a human but decides to become a Navi by the end of the movie. There is no moral ambiguity, confusion or even hesitation over falling in love with an alien and siding with them or even permanently transferring into his alien body. This is lazy storytelling because it doesn't cause us to question our own values or raise tension in the movie. Don't you think the movie would have been better if it had addressed how much of a leap it was to side with an alien species or if Jake was losing his humanity at all?
CHARACTERIZATION: Look at the character arcs of Sarah and the T800 in T2. Both start out as rather cold, hardened warriors in their own way but become wiser through the course of the movie. Sarah decides to spare the engineer's life because he has a family and as a mother she realizes the value of human life. The T800 learns why people cry and heroically sacrifices itself to save humanity and THAT MADE THE MOVIE MORE ENTERTAINING. Isn't that scene just fucking INCREDIBLE? It's not great because of the effects. It's because the T800 has gone full circle - from a soulless machine to a true hero. I could go on and on about how most of the characters changed over the movie but you get the idea.
There is NO comparable scene or character arc in Avatar. The only character who even changes is Jake and there's no real moral dilemma. He makes the obvious choices and never doubts himself or his cause.
Sooo it's okay to criticize a movie's storytelling because it's even more important than the fight choreography or CGI effects - a great story makes a kickass movie.
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what I dont get is when people see this type of movie they allways have to say its the same story just diffrent people/visuals. sure it may be the same shit new smell but everyone likes it. not every movie is gonna be ground braking plot and awsome new story. It all brakes down to the hide behind a random name on the internet and bam i can call a rose shit and and expect everyone to suck my epeen. whats the point of pointing out the fact that its the same story done over 100 times again. shit starwars was the same story done over 100 times along with most movies that have some form of fantasy or si-fi aspect. if it truly bothers you that its the same story why see it?
Im, not saying anyone here is like that its just crazy that everyone says that. I know im guilty of it, i just dont get why.
Aaarrgh. STORY MATTERS. When you say something like the above, you are also in effect saying that every single song in your favorite genre (rock for example) is identical and Jimi Hendrix is no different than the average high school garage band. You are denying the possibility that some works of pop culture/art have a better structure than others - because you want to put them all in the same amorphous blob that is popular culture. Nothing is good, nothing is bad. Everything is to be judged on the content of its viscera - its explosions, body count, tits and asses, catchphrases, blood and gore and special effects.
CRITICISM MATTERS. Not the generic "THIS FUKKEN RULES/THIS FUKKEN SUCKS" shit you see on the Internet but a more detailed critique of a film's strengths and weaknesses. Ebert is a pretty good writer actually and while I don't always agree with him, he's a good critic.
So it's not the same story every time. Great storytelling creates unique and satisfying variations on a common theme - it seems similar but it has a 'one of a kind' feel to it that lesser works fail to capture. The original Star Wars trilogy was not the same story done over 100 times - it was a unique fusion of Akira Kurosawa films, the best Westerns and many other things. It was something the world had never seen before and that is why it is so important to this day.
Let's look at two movies: Terminator 2 and Avatar - both are sci fi action flicks directed by James Cameron and noted for their high tech special effects.
Terminator 2 has a great story and structure - Avatar has a bad story and structure. I don't want to get into every little detail but here are a few reasons why:
THEME: Terminator 2 has several important themes interwoven with the plot: Fate (can we change our fate?), the nature of humanity, The danger of technology/progress and our inherent warlike nature. For example the theme of humanity is shown throughout by not only the T-800's actions and his education by John Connor but through Sarah Connor's decision not to kill the engineer responsible for Skynet - this is a moral gray area. Is right to kill someone for something they haven't even thought of doing yet? How do you know it's right? These themes are shown through good storytelling and do not distract from the overall story - they enhance it.
In Avatar the themes are very simple (nature good, exploitation bad) even the nature of humanity theme. Jake Sully is a human but decides to become a Navi by the end of the movie. There is no moral ambiguity, confusion or even hesitation over falling in love with an alien and siding with them or even permanently transferring into his alien body. This is lazy storytelling because it doesn't cause us to question our own values or raise tension in the movie. Don't you think the movie would have been better if it had addressed how much of a leap it was to side with an alien species or if Jake was losing his humanity at all?
CHARACTERIZATION: Look at the character arcs of Sarah and the T800 in T2. Both start out as rather cold, hardened warriors in their own way but become wiser through the course of the movie. Sarah decides to spare the engineer's life because he has a family and as a mother she realizes the value of human life. The T800 learns why people cry and heroically sacrifices itself to save humanity and THAT MADE THE MOVIE MORE ENTERTAINING. Isn't that scene just fucking INCREDIBLE? It's not great because of the effects. It's because the T800 has gone full circle - from a soulless machine to a true hero. I could go on and on about how most of the characters changed over the movie but you get the idea.
There is NO comparable scene or character arc in Avatar. The only character who even changes is Jake and there's no real moral dilemma. He makes the obvious choices and never doubts himself or his cause.
Sooo it's okay to criticize a movie's storytelling because it's even more important than the fight choreography or CGI effects - a great story makes a kickass movie.
I'm not saying that criticism, is by any means bad, I just don't get whats the point of pointing out that its the same old movie warmed over again. Anyone that saw it can say that, unless they don't see movies often, and I fully agree that T2 had the more developed characters. Jake did question what he was doing but your right if you blinked you would have missed it, right after he got done "becoming a man" while laying in the tube he said, "Oh shit what am I doing." pretty blunt way of questioning him self but he still did it, and that's the only time he did. So it is much weaker in the plot areas, and I'm not trying to compare it to the greatest film ever made, or even a really good one like T2. I just don't get why the nature of the internet is to go on there and point out the simplest part of hey its the same story done over again.
I have to disagree with your Music comparison, there are plenty of bands out there that have a very distinct sound to them, even in the day of modern rock its pretty easy to here the difference between 2 bands that are of the same rock genre. Now in the world of rap, I have a harder time telling the difference at points, but I also don't like modern rap. Wu-tang Clan FTW!
But with a movie such as Avatar that has the plot line of Nature good, explosions bad, they played the movie out well. I cant say the movie had a weak plot, its not the strongest plot but to say its a weak plot, I don't feel gives it a fair enough opinion and to just compare it to one of James Camron's best movie isn't fair either. Its been what 18 years since that time, he i sent going to go off and make a movie with shit plot in it, he made a movie based around a new experience on a untamed planet.
Again I know that critiquing a movie is all opinion based, and were all going to have different opinions, and maybe I'm just taking the view of the typical American movie goer. I don't typically go into a movie expecting to see ground braking plot, I go in to enjoy something that is visually appealing, maybe its wrong to see a movie based on just that. As for my opinion on Avatar, I enjoyed it, Plot was good, visuals were great, over all a very enjoyable movie.
I watched it in 3d last night, Honestly I think seeing the movie a 2nd time did not help any. It really didn't change any, and we were sitting to far back on a smaller screen so the Visuals were about the same as it was in normal vision. Seeing all of the corners of the screen on a 3d movie hurts the Visual effects of it. Your right story matters, but to say its story was not there or done 100 times before, is just not fair for a movie that was enjoyable. If you didn't like the movie fair enough, but whats the point of going to a movie like that then? You should know that most movies these days are going to fall into that category of its been done before.
Just like the transformers, I didn't understand why people were harping on it so hard, Sure the plot line was weaker then the first one, but It was still an enjoyable movie. My favorite part of that movie to make fun of is the fact that the power of love saved Optimums Prime at the end, talk about cheese. Kids loved it, parents that took there kids to see it enjoyed it, the hard core movie fans or hard core transformers fans hated it. Why? Because they can simple as that. That of course is my opinion. haha!
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The problem isn't that the Avatar plot has been done before. Its that its been done quite a bit, and the Avatar retelling of that plot adds very little to the theme. As Ross said, the good guys are good, the bad guys are bad, and everyone is sure in their beliefs, and everyone behaves predictably. 10 minutes in, I knew exactly how the rest of the movie would play out and because of that, I felt disappointed.
I don't go to see a ground breaking plot all the time, but I do expect the movie to bring something new to the table, the reason why I would see that movie over some other movie. Avatar brought some very pretty and realistic visual effects. However, I didn't feel that was enough of a variance from past movies.
As for exploring themes, it really didn't. It hamfisted a message of NATURE GOOD CORPORATIONS BAD, with really nothing to think about. Everything the corporation did was bad. Everything the natives did was good. Maybe if the "UNOBTAINIUM" was being used to cure cancer, or stop some super evil being from attacking earth, or if the natives had slaves, or mind dominated the humans the captured, we'd have some moral ambiguity.
As for why can't we just set the bar at enjoyable, its bad to keep your expectations low. Maybe my expectations were set a little too high for Avatar, but I don't believe it was billed as just a "kids movie" or an action packed slugfest. For example, I enjoyed "Shoot em Up", because it was a movie whose expectations were "hey we're not going to worry about plot and stuff, he's a dude being bad ass for an hour and a half". No attempt at a moral, minimal character development, but an enjoyable movie.
To provide a counter example, a movie with a similar theme (exploitation bad, nature good) that I enjoyed was "Men Who Stare at Goats". The movie had good character development, and interesting plotline, and the moral was subtle and made you think.
In summary, all this bullshit comes down to - Avatar was an ok movie. I wouldn't reccommend seeing it, because the plot was pretty basic and predictable, and you too will probably find yourself bored about 30 minutes. It did have really good looking visual effects, so if that is what your into, have at it.
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I watch movies to be entertained. I read books to pick them apart yes I tend to pick movies apart also but I don't do it to the point of destroying the movie. but to each their own.
But you want a movie to hate watch Hell boy 2
Want a good movie watch Sherlock Holmes
and the best James Cameron movie was Titanic
Now let the flaming begin
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I watch movies to be entertained. I read books to pick them apart yes I tend to pick movies apart also but I don't do it to the point of destroying the movie. but to each their own.
But you want a movie to hate watch Hell boy 2
Want a good movie watch Sherlock Holmes
and the best James Cameron movie was Titanic
Now let the flaming begin
Terminator 2 is vastly superior to Titanic.
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I watch movies to be entertained. I read books to pick them apart yes I tend to pick movies apart also but I don't do it to the point of destroying the movie. but to each their own.
But you want a movie to hate watch Hell boy 2
Want a good movie watch Sherlock Holmes
and the best James Cameron movie was Titanic
Now let the flaming begin
Terminator 2 is vastly superior to Titanic.
/signed.
so how was the sherlock holms? I did not relise it was out yet, i only saw 1 preview of it.
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I liked it very much I watched it on xmas day.....
Titanic is the greatest movie ever made!!!!!!! :P
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I liked it very much I watched it on xmas day.....
Titanic is the greatest movie ever made!!!!!!! :P
Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad
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To be fair, I enjoyed the Hellboy movies. I kinda feel bad about that.
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Also I finally realized what movies are exactly avatar.
Dune
Dances with Wolves
The Last Samurai
District 9
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I'm gonna go ahead and say that I watched avatar and liked it, despite not wanting to. If you see it as a plot to a video game, it's decent.
Hmm... Battlezone 2! Yeah, I'm pretty sure it had a similar plot.
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Also I finally realized what movies are exactly avatar.
Dune
Dances with Wolves
The Last Samurai
District 9
I hate to say it...
...Fern Gully?
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Hey now I liked Furn gully. haha!
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Hellboy 1 was very good, hellboy 2 sucked ass
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Yeah, this was basically Ferngully in space. That was my review on the way out of the theater. Bad guys bad, good guys good, space marine with a scar over one eye, etc.
There were two things that I actually liked about it. The first was the motivation behind the main character. The cripple getting to live vicariously through the machine. That he wasn't actually caring about the science or the war, he just was enjoying having legs again. Wish they had played with that more.
The other was actually the site foreman. The balding guy in a suit who was always talking about the bottom line. They did a good job of never making him a "bad guy". He wants to do his job, but he isn't bloodthirsty. There was a moment towards the middle of the film when they were about to start the massive "shoot the aliens" scene. He was suddenly questioning what was about to happen. He was "just the guy doing his job", and seemed to actually feel remorse about killing dozens of natives. I was kinda hoping we'd get a change of heart from him.
Unfortunately that suddenly disappeared a few moments later.
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Actually, there are a few understated character beats in Avatar. The business guys is one of them. He has the look that things have gone too far when the attack happens, but doens't have some disney change of heart, he just shuts up and lets it keep happening.
Whne everyone leaves, you see his expression wanting to say something, but he either knows he won't be forgiven, or can't bring himself to admit his mistake, and moves on.
Similarly, the main guy doens't explicitly say he's lost in his new body, but his lack of personal grooming and even the fact he has to be told to eat sort of show how he lives in his avatar and is letting go of thinking about his normal body.
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Dunno. It seems like there were a lot of missed opportunities. There could have been a lot of interesting sub plots, but there weren't. Maybe the DVD will save this movie.
Wait.
http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2009/12/secrets_of_navi_sex_revealed.html
Never mind
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He's losing SAN points the more he uses the damn machine!
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I watched Avatar today and it was visually amazing, story was not lacking just generic. I watched it on Imax 3d and that is the way to go. like i said before I went there with low expectations and becuase of that I was blown away.
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http://9gag.com/photo/16103_full.jpg
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I felt bad for the tame dragon. Jake's all like, "Nope, I got a big badass red one now, get lost, loser."
And the dragon says, "But, Jake, remember all the good times we had? We spent like twenty minutes of screen time just flying around! I heard you laugh with delight no fewer than sixteen times!"
And then Jake says, "Do you have head AND chin flaps? No? Fuck off!"
Oh wait, no, do you think he fed his first dragon to the second one? You never see the blue-green one again, right?
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Eh, he got bored with it at the end because it kept dragging him off to wild parties all the time and making him dress up 'younger' and he could never get enough sleep for work the next day, so I think it's hinted at that he was all 'hey baby, I'm back' to his old mount at the end.
And three months late he discovered he had a disease of the ponytail he'd passed on to his old mount.
:'(
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Dragon Syphilis, is not easy to cure. Just ask Lock.
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Can dragon syphilis be passed by hair-to-tentacle contact?
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Theres realy only one way to find out, And well my hair isent long enough.
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you guys are assholes first make a better movie when you do that talk shit.
Yeah I said it.
Yall are haters HAAAATTTTTERS!!!!!
:P
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you guys are assholes first make a better movie when you do that talk shit.
Yeah I said it.
Yall are haters HAAAATTTTTERS!!!!
:P
I already did, it's called Oregon Trail 13 (http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/7720/emotsmug.gif)
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I mean a good movie ;)
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I mean a good movie ;)
(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/5299/emotsmithicide.gif)
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Oregon Trail 13 is a better movie.
/
(http://i49.tinypic.com/dn0bqb.gif)
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Oregon Trail 13 is a better movie.
/
(http://i49.tinypic.com/dn0bqb.gif)
QFT
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It was just a remake of Cannibal: The Musical with bigger guns!
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hahahahah
http://www.achewood.com/index.php?date=01072010
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I think Ross' movie Motor Home From Hell gives Avatar a run for its money.
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yeah you should all buy DVDs of it - like 20 copies each
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I thought Avatar was pretty decent. I mean, James Cameron didn't exactly go out on a limb and make the story complex or thought-provoking, but he had $280 million of his investors' money on the line. So the hero was a boy scout defending a tribe of innocent natives and their breathtakingly beautiful habitat from a corporate tool who would foreclose on his own grandmother and a cookie cutter military villain who practically started the picture with his puppy stompin' boots laced up. I agree, the film ignored the nuances of colonial exploitation and the interactions between two cultures meeting for the first time. But it was still really pretty, and when I saw it, most of the audience was on board with it from start to finish. All told, I got about as much out of the movie as I expected--an exciting, enjoyable, and stunningly rendered adventure story that entertained me for two and a half hours--and I guess you can't knock that. I don't think film theory PhDs will be writing any thesis papers on the thematic and narrative elements of Avatar, but it was worth the $18 for an IMAX ticket.
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NYT columnist Robert Brooks on Avatar: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/08/opinion/08brooks.html
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David Brooks is an idiot. That reads like an op-ed from a student newspaper. He is a lazy thinker who goes for the obvious.
http://www.metafilter.com/81873/Harlem-Childrens-Zone
http://www.metafilter.com/74117/Asian-socities-drive-like-this
Can anybody tell me why David Brooks is taken seriously. Is it entirely because other people take him seriously? The first thing I ever read by him was "One Nation, Slightly Divisible", which read better as satire of the conservative urban perspective on the rest of the country, rather than an attempt at investigating it. Since then, I haven't heard or read anything by him that convinces me that he could even bluff his way out of a parking ticket.
I would say that he's the Paris Hilton of political commentary but she recently proved that she's more convincing at pushing energy policy.