The Role Playing Public Radio Forums
General Category => RPGs => : dragonshaos March 24, 2009, 03:50:33 PM
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Well, continuing from http://slangdesign.com/rppr/bbpress/topic.php?id=97 for my campaign I had semi-planned out, now that I have a rulebook and Ive read over them Ive decided to start actually writing down my 'script' of sorts for the first session. But there's a problem...
To start the players are going to be trapped within the dungeon they helped build. I think to keep the element of surprise, the players will be the 'fresh' slaves' recently captured. This way its still a new dungeon. So as stated before something will happen where the evil boss (I'm just going to call him that for now) is forced to leave, leaving the players and the rest of the slave community locked inside.
Now here is where Ive come to a tab bit of a problem. I have just a few ideas I could use for this session. And depending on the idea I use will pretty much determine how...crazy (?) the evil boss guy is. Oh, and the dungeon has multiple floors, the deeper you go the harder it gets, so there's a lot of slaves the players will be with.
1. I could make the dungeon a series of trials [Each trial having the proper NPC to help them through it,(1 representing each guild, so about 4) but not do it for them.] in which there's the trap trial, the riddle trial, the monster trial and I thought of throwing in the 2 statues, one that only tells the truth and one that only tells lies, to mix it up. Each trial has a very simple name (Like Trial of Ideas for the riddles) and after they get through them they are given the choice to keep going down or leave through some means. This gives me the option to keep the dungeon active for later adventuring, giving the new Trials more meaningful names (like Trial of Epiphany for a later Riddle). This would in turn make the Evil Boss someone who can show pity, showing that he may just be following orders from a higher being. I'm toying with this idea but it represent the closest to my original.
2. Since the players are slaves and they are trying to save not only themselves but the community, I thought Id have them gamble the lives of them. A large stone tablet will tell them to divide the slaves, about 100 of them, into 3 rooms (again, each representing a trial) and have them decide whether or not to let the slaves attempt the trial, or have them 'pass'. I'm toying with the idea to make this a secret vote or saying it in the open (or both). By passing, the players will unknowingly the first time kill all the slaves. I have 3 means by which this happens for the first 3 trials. Traps, the slaves are to simply get trhough a passageway alive, filled mainly with spear traps. If the players pass, the slaves in their 'waiting room' are impaled upon spears, shot down by arrow turrets, and burned in flaming oil. Riddle, the slaves are to answer a simple riddle. Pass, and the slaves are suddenly entering a room with zombies, being eaten alive and having their brains torn from their heads. Monster, they fight a few skeletons. Pass, rats rains down from the walls and floors up the the waist of the slaves as they are quickly eaten alive by millions of rats.
The fourth trial, however, will be for the players only. Ill throw the Truth/Lies statues at them for this.
In this way they players are somewhat determining how many slaves they could start with in their town building.
The way the players are picked is since there are 5, I will have 7 pedestals that need to be occupied. Each representing one of 7 sins (I like incorporating them). 2 NPC's will fill up 2, these 2 will be semi-important is determining the vote for the players and slaves. The players can choose not to do the voting and instead attempt the trial (in which case they will never come up as pass, in fact only the 7 who are the 'Sinners' will know that someone had a hand in choosing.
I think I'm going to go with this idea because I can incorporate more time in the building and adventuring before the Evil Boss comes back. The Evil Boss himself could be a gambling man, using the dungeons he's built as tests against the slaves, earn their freedom at a price. Believing the players will choose pass each time, he believes they wont survive in the wilderness, and thus wont come back for a time.
These are just 2 ideas I've thought over the most. I want something interesting and a way to introduce a wide array of challenges so my players will learn the game with me. Sorry for making this so long...If you read all of it I think you for your time and hope you can suggest any kind of ideas. Thank you.
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Well, reading this and the original thread, I see a few possible problems:
So far it seems more like a puzzle-based video game plot than a D&D plot. The whole sacrificing slaves by the hundreds that are in room if the players pass instead of solving the puzzle is kind of non-nonsensical since... well, what's the whole point of building that? They would probably be starved by the time any adventurer comes along anyway.
If the campaign is going to be based around the dungeon, not only are you going to want to map it out, but you might also want to consider why it's built. I understand the evil boss is crazy and all but dungeons are usually built to protect something. If it's just a trap for the slaves, then there's no reason anyone in its right mind would want to go to the lower levels.
I'm not saying your puzzle idea is bad, it's just that if it's badly implemented the game won't last very long. Here's what I suggest:
1) Make sure you know what the players want by talking to them. If they're more puzzle oriented, then puzzles it is. If they want to fight monsters, puzzles will bore them, make the dungeon into some sort of monster zoo. If they're not into politics and you give them the reins to building a new society, they won't do anything with them.
2) Make the other slaves actually act like humans, not one-liner guys who stand in a corner and give them their single line of dialogue about how pressing X on a crystal to save their game. You probably know that, but some GMs don't know how to do proper NPCs. They have to do what real people would do in their situation, not just be like lemmings walking off cliffs. Why save them if they're mindless non-sentient pieces of meat? The players might still help them because of their "alignment", but as the example of the frog people in Ross' new world campaign, it'll be much more interesting if there's an actual investment in their well-being.
3) Don't over plan. Players will do what you didn't expect anyway. If the players didn't find a way around a third of the things you had in store for them, you're doing something wrong.
That's basically it. Personally, I would make the players start as slaves building a fairly huge labyrinth with big chambers containing tricks and oddities when the entrance collapses. The players would be stuck inside having to gather and organize the other slaves to dig their way out. Each session, they would head out to look for magical items the mage has kept in separate chambers that might help them get out. They know that something huge is in the treasure chamber at the bottom but as the traps are insane, they wouldn't risk it yet. When they finally get out, a group of bloodthirsty mercenaries would try to raid the dungeon so they have to fend them off. They can either start setting up new traps or head for the bottom of the dungeon to find the item which will give them the edge they need. But that's my kind of games.
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That's an interesting idea indeed. Im liking the idea that its a huge labyrinth and the entrance collapses (Was it an accident...? Interesting...) and then the players work with the slaves. I can only get so much down typed when so many ideas go through my head. I talked with a GM of mine from college and he said one of the major flaws was the players not starting with items, so including them going about getting the items they were creating a dungeon to protect is interesting. But the overall idea, whether the players get it or not, is for the main bad guy to come back with evil intentions.
The main point about players starting in this dungeon is that its going to be a way for them to learn how the mechanics of the DnD game work. The puzzles are mainly them learning how they can deal with future traps and puzzles and the encounters will give them a good idea as their role in the group. This way the dungeon will be the introduction to the rest of the campaign, the town building being the part where it gets much more sand box, choosing where and what to do next.
NPC's I was going to role play them out, having them shout to the players what to do (both good and bad advice) having the players end up working together with a few key NPC's who would in a sense represent the overall mood/ideas/fears of the slaves, but not do the tasks themselves. in fact the more helpul of the unique NPC's i plan for them to die, by thinking the traps are clear or the encounter over. Mindless NPC's would add nothing, Im having them be fearful for their lives now that they believe they are trapped within their new tomb, wanting desperately to get out, needing some kind of...group, of heroes...to save them. I know almost 100% one of my players is playing the heroic 'Lets save everyone cause I'm an awesome bad ass' character (He's a Dragonborn paladin haha). So immediately people will start asking them to go forward to do the 'trials', more or less making the players the main characters they look up to for help and guidance, getting more scared and angry at the heroes if they falter.
So...slaves, players, labyrinth, entrance destroyed, gather slaves, go though getting items through trials, umm...oh!, Keys with the items that lead the an Exit door, AND to the lower dungeon areas, uhh...and then it brings them to the outside. The political aspect is something that if they pay attention to how the NPC's act, and how the village is growing they could see how their actions affect it, otherwise to them it'll be the simple "Oh noes! Gnolls is attacking! Kill em! Argle Bargle!" which I know my players are fine with too.
I realize my players are very open to everything and will try hard, if not attempt to give everything a try. Unless I'm missing something I guess all that's really left is to figure out a reason for why the evil boss guy would leave, and why he would come back.
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Hell, why we don't we just figure out a backstory that you can use in the game. A story that makes sense and will allow you to figure out how the dungeon reacts to the actions of the players. We'll start with some questions:
1. Why was the dungeon built?
2. Who built the dungeon?
3. Why did he leave?
4. Where did the slaves come from?
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Ah yes...its funny, I'm in a Game Design class and the basics is to ask questions...which I forgot to do in my case :-X It's embarrassing...
Ok, let's see here...
1. and 2.
Why was the Dungeon built...hmm...Alright, how about it's being built over an older dungeon in which the upper floors needed remodeling due to all the adventurers coming in looking for treasure over the course of generation after generation (Sounds as a joke, but if someone goes to all the trouble to make a dungeon, and they're still alive, they want it to at least look nice ;) ). The original dungeon itself was built within the now abandoned lair of an Elder Green Dragon. The Dragon itself has not been seen for generations. However, the main boss, lets call him Bob now, is the heir to a massive fortune he inherits from generations pasts. The treasure he has is actually what still remains from the stash the Dragon left behind. So Bob is 'refurnishing' the dungeon with new traps and putting in new enemies. In a sense he's 'refreshing' the dungeon. He does this not for adventurers, but because the items he has locked away beneath the upper floors are too valuable to be left anywhere else. The top floor or two are simply there to make it seem too easy and thus turn away more determined adventurers (that's Bob's thought anyway).
So, the dungeon is being built to keep the secret treasure beneath it safe from adventurers. Simple enough for now. And as a quick note, they refresh the dungeon about 2-3 times a generation due to the severe lack of adventurers, we are talking about a valley in the middle of nowhere.
Now for 3...Why would a man who is using his fortune to uphold his family tradition of keeping the dungeon safe leave his slaves for long enough time for the slaves to not only escape but use the resources left behind to create a small village...I've got it! It changes the story just a tad bit, but it works...
Alright, so Bob is the evil guy calling the shots at the dungeon sight...But, after the entrance of the cave collapses he find himself trapped inside the dungeon too! His cohorts on the outside know he's trapped, or worse, dead (and when the slaves find out he's inside the dungeon, he may well be dead). So, when Bob's cohorts leave, they're returning the Bob's father...the man who gave Bob the task of 'refreshing' the dungeon! So when Bob's father hears the news (he lives really far away. Like, really far) he panics for his sons life and orders a large portion of his guards to save his son. And thus an oncoming army that the players will find out about later.
Whew...tough work...alright...now for 4.
The slaves themselves come from small villages and towns from across the land, a few taken here and there, secretly so as not to arouse suspicion. Most of the slaves are just that though, slaves. Bought and traded, eventually ending up here. This will give the players the main community of their village, people who want to stay and settler, out of harms way of the whip and beatings. But the ones who came from families and had lives want to return to them. This way after the town has grown enough supplies and can live on it's own peacefully for now in the valley, these npc's that had lives will gather what they can, and leave. This will be when the players themselves leave the village, after all their work is done and they are not needed. The village community will encourage that the players go out and make a name for themselves in other towns as they did in this one.
The majority of encounter in the top floor of the dungeon can be the guards ordered to watch the slaves. As the slaves revolt after they realize what's happening, the guards will try and barricade themselves in rooms, using the few archers inside to keep the slaves away. This is one way the players will then be able to get weapons and armor. After they've settled with most of the guards, they could try their hand at a few 'prize' rooms that have some treasure and maybe one lesser magic object to make them happy.
So that's back story, reasons for dungeon, reasons for army coming, where slaves came from, and item issues.
I want to thank you guys so very much for helping me with this. I know I seem a bit rash and really annoying, but it's something I'm really excited about and I want to get this right as best I can. It means a lot that I can get help from experienced people like you guys and it means a lot, criticism on my work and all.
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I've got a question and an idea.
If the dungeons doesn't get many adventurers, wouldn't the "redesign" comes across as useless since it already successfully guards the treasures. Actually, the only work needed besides rebuilding the top floor would be to re-arm the traps. The PCs should probably have stashes of arrows and darts (possibly posion) and a few other gimmicks they can use for weapons, until they steal the guard's weapons.
My idea is this: when the cave collapses, it buries Bob alive. The players, starting at the collapses, will have to go around and talk order into the slaves and get the wounded brought to some room where they can be healed (some slaves might be clerics). Make them roll for perception or something, at early enough in the game, make them rescue a confused and injured man with battered robe. As he thanks them, make something else happen to draw them away from the guy. He's, of course, Bob and in such a bad state that no one recognize him as such, most slave only knows that he wears red robes or something. Seeing his guards then and himself being trapped, he passes himself as a low level mage or something.
Whether you give more hints or not that he's Bob doesn't really matter, if they kill him or something happens to him, they'll still have an army to face when they try to get out. If he has a change of heart, that could be something interesting to explore in a roleplaying game.
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Hmm...that is interesting...
But yes mainly what the slaves will be there to do is such things as remove skeletons or put them in proper places that look scary, re-arm traps, put back any monsters that live long enough since most died, and sweeping up the passageways. Simple things really. Ill have those tedious jobs be the players for a few minutes while explaining how the more veteran slaves are actually rebuilding some collapsed passageways, that way there's reasons for pickaxes, shovels and the like for weapons.
The thought of Bob possibly having a change in heart crossed my mind. However I know there's a player who could see through that and possibly kill him on sight, claiming that Bob has tortured him so much that he would recognize him anywhere (metagamer...). Hmm, Ill have Bob try a Diplomacy check as a way for me to gauge how he acts when he encounters them, and a quick Bluff check as he tries to pass himself as a lowly mage (which the players would like as help when fighting the archers).
So yes, there's a way I can incorporate that into this. Maybe Bob has temporary amnesia and really believes he may be a slave.
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You're practically god. Fuck metagamers. Why would Bob torture slaves himself, it's a lowly job for henchmen.
You know, sometimes players argue against your decision without wanting to be dick, just lacking the understanding of the situation. I'm guilty of it too, when a GM doesn't allow me to do something I think I would be able to. You just have to tell them: "Look, that's the way it is, I can compromise so and so, but I can't let this and that." If they argue on, just tell them they're being a "dick", it's interesting how people knock it out when they realize that.
As for the rolls, it's really up to you. I don't know how much experience you have with GMing but you should often roll dices behind the screen so they don't know when you're making checks or not. If succeeding that roll will make deprive them from an interesting party of the story, why let them roll at all? At the same time, if there's an important thing they should be noticing to go on in the quest such as a hidden door, why let them fail at that roll and stall the game?
Then again, that's just my style of play and GMing, I like to keep the focus on the story and the action rather than the rules.
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Roll wise, I use a little screen and will roll while having a conversation with a player in game. Sometimes I roll, look at the result and laugh to myself or swear under my breath. and these rolls will mean nothing, just there to throw players off. Ive talked again to some other GM friends of mine and they say to let Bob live and have the players do something about him, whether it be befriending him or killing him in the end.
I have enough experience to know that if the players need or should notice something, Ill just let them notice it or have them roll and whatever comes up it passes (if not Ill have them notice something that makes them notice it) that way I keep the story moving. The only time Ive had to stop the story is due to either forces outside my power (people outside the game interrupting for instance) and if a player questions a rule or effect then we briefly pause the game (at a point where stopping briefly would be acceptable).
But yeah...I think I'm going to start mapping out the dungeon and looking over encounters. Hopefully this will turn out well.
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Yeah, take notes a let us know. I'd like to know how it rolls out. (No pun intended... well maybe a little now, since I could change it but I won't because it sounds so witty... okay I'll shut up.)
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OK, so here's what ive managed to get done for the first session. Just the dungeon, im not going to get into the story again.
The dungeon is a fairly small maze with some of the dead ends of the maze blocked off with doors and in the middle a room with doors leading from one side to the other. On the right hand side of the maze I have small rooms with Decrepit Skeletons lvl 1 (lowest encounter x4, highest x8 skeletons). In the center room is where the slaves will have a makeshift hospital for the wounded with a (unique character) Cleric trying to tend to their wounds. The Left side of the maze has a few traps linked together. I have two crossbow turrets set to the end of a hallway, after the players set off the trap (which is a scripted effect set off my a slave) the players will need to hid behind a few walls, which have Spear Gauntlets places sparingly. Most of the dead end room have the guards inside trying to hold off the slaves. These encounter comprise of some Human Guards lvl 3, [trained] Gray Wolves lvl 2, and the occasional Human Mage lvl 4. throughout the maze there are dozens of Human Rabble lvl 1 (1hp) who act as both slaves and very very weak guards. Essentially the slaves and weak guards fight it out while the players fight the more dangerous foes. if the players want they can help the slaves and increase the chance of them living (which helps alot in the long run, but there's a good amount of slaves who survive no matter what).
At the end of the maze I have a custom Elite Human Berserker lvl 4 which the weapon (i made) Slavemaster Bane's Whip (which has a +2 Resounding enchant). After he is defeated some role playing goes on and it will be decided that the still living slaves will make a village. And thus should be the end of session one.
I'm still making a few unique characters who to start just have some helpful advice for players, if they survive the maze I have nothing really planned. I may have them be something like the town healer, trader, farmer etc.
There are a few rooms I have planned to contain minor magic weapons/armor, Slavemaster Bane's axe being one from an encounter. I'm thinking of adding a Dagger with Duelist enchant for a combat encounter against the room with most skeletons, a Quarterstaff of magic +1 for answering a riddle, a Magic Holy Symbol of Melora (used later) from a dying paladin/cleric, and something else I haven't decided.
Input/ Ideas/ Information all helpful.
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Eh, I wouldn't assume what the resolution is going to be. Some of the slaves are going to want to go back to their old lives no matter what - they have families and friends back home. Furthermore, allow some space for the players to come up with alternate solutions. They should at least be able to persuade some of the guards to join with the slaves, as the slaves have greater numbers or convince the guards the repent their evil ways or something like that. Do your players enjoy dungeon crawls with mazes? Mine sure don't.
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The slaves themselves come from small villages and towns from across the land, a few taken here and there, secretly so as not to arouse suspicion. Most of the slaves are just that though, slaves. Bought and traded, eventually ending up here. This will give the players the main community of their village, people who want to stay and settle out of harms way of the whip and beatings. But the ones who came from families and had lives want to return to them. This way after the town has grown enough supplies and can live on it's own peacefully for now in the valley, these npc's that had lives will gather what they can, and leave. This will be when the players themselves leave the village, after all their work is done and they are not needed. The village community will encourage that the players go out and make a name for themselves in other towns as they did in this one.
This takes care of the villagers and families as stated earlier.
I'm using the maze layout now in hopes that if it works out great, if not, I have another entire dungeon layout using a random dungeon generator I can use for the floors below. In future games I plan to use more structured dungeons bu for now the Maze seemed fun.
I can see guards joining in with the slaves. Ill have a unique Npc try to get the players to talk to a room barricaded by guards. If it works the guards will join up, if not, fighting will ensure. The players can try this a few times.
But OK...I think Ive got this first session, as hectic as its been, just about done. Just gotta make the unique Npcs and add the magics with the encounters and presto! A headache! ::)
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Alright, I think I'm going to have my first session of my campaign this Saturday. im nervous, feels like there's a lot not done but Saturday is a good day to have it. If anyone has any last tips or ideas for it please let me know. Thanks!
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Alright, I think I'm going to have my first session of my campaign this Saturday. im nervous, feels like there's a lot not done but Saturday is a good day to have it. If anyone has any last tips or ideas for it please let me know. Thanks!
If you mess A SINGLE RULE up, the entire game is RUINED FOREVER.
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.../wrist :'(
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Never let the players know you're through feelings. I suggest you wear a mask while DMing and hide your voice fluctuations using a white noise converter microphone. Buy some really big dices, so the players know where they stand.
I suggest physical violence, if your country allows it, to keep the players in line. If not, use a phonebook. It doesn't leave any marks and gamer testimonies are as believable as a mother's virginity.
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.../wrist :'(
8)
its okay you will do fine
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Blegh!
Session cancelled.
Not enough people can make it of course...
Just gives me more time to plan I guess...
:-\
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Woo! Just had out first session. We started about 1 and had to be finished by about 6 due to players having lives and all. But for all that we managed to get the important stuff done and they managed to make it out of the dungeon. I managed to introduce a few key characters and managed to squeeze in a magic item or two. They really like how it's going with them starting as slaves and getting their revenge on the captors. The way I introduced the collapse of the entranced and then explained to them what is happening made a good impression.
Pros= Fun and unknowing, challenging start, really fun end boss guy, and they're looking forward to this village building idea.
Cons= Players didn't get to half the content I had ready, they didn't take any chances (except one who tried to take on too many guys alone...) and had some loot problems with people trying to take as much as they could (Fixing that).
So they all tell me they liked it and are excited to what is going to happen next.
Oh, and in case anyone wants to know, the players are:
Dragonborn Fighter
Dragonborn Paladin
Eladrin Warlock
Eladrin Wizard
Tiefling Warlord
So ya.
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Good to hear! Well, tell us what happened, with the players, the end boss, etc.
In a chronological order please.
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So the players find themselves in an unknown dungeon which suddenly collapses. While everyone was chatting waiting for me to start I suddenly busted out Roll an Acrobatics check! Only the wizard failed taking minor damage from a rock. With the entrances collapsed I then backtracked into telling them that they were slaves and explained how they became slaves etc... To make the beginning hard, all players had magical manacles that reduced all acro/athlet checks by 5, could use magic, and had no weapons and armor. The dragonborn also had muzzles on. Ya, I can be a bit like a dick. ;)
So knowing that, they immediately split up and take different routes...yay...the warlord decided to take one route and everyone else the other. Oh, at this time the warlock hasn't shown up, she comes in later in the game.
So, two different things happen, the warlord comes across a fight between slaves and Watchers (Human Rabble) fighting. he quickly help out the slaves and they follow him around. He then finds two more who are holding a door closed, they ask him to find something to barricade it so they can leave. He finds a pike, the first weapon found. He props it against the door, keeping it closed. (He's in the undead section of the maze, so undead are behind every door) The slaves follow him around at this point (more), so he has about 4 slaves following him. After the door incident he is greeted by Karim, one of the unique NPC's in the dungeon, guarding a door that he finds out to be where a magical item is. Karim tells him not to go in there, and tells the warlord to find more weapons to outfit himself and slaves with. So he does.
Now the other group goes on the complete opposite direction. They get to the trap area, where they find slaves hanging outside a door which they claim is holding in Guards. They just walk past and meet up with another NPC that tells them no to go further or they would activate the traps. They try to throw this NPC into the corridor that has traps but failed. So they walk back to where the slaves were guarding the door just to have the door suddenly get all smokey and explode with a mage coming out. The players immediately run, leaving the slaves to die. They decide to run where they think the warlord is, failing a perception roll and tripping/breaking the same pike keeping a door closed. 4 Decrepit Skeletons come out and attack. They quickly kill them, loot them, and meet up with Karim.
They decide Karim is a guard in disguise, and try to open the door behind him. He asks for them to stop and immediately distrust the group. Since the dragonborn have muzzles they can't talk, so for Karim to show he is trustworthy he present the only key he has which happens to be the key for the muzzles. Now the players really don't trust him, and leave, after he asks for them to find the Ward, which is the base of operations for the slaves (Who, the players will discover, are being organized by a few NPC's, Karim being one).
One of the players, the paladin, decides to leave and explore, getting ambushed by a guard and dog, and getting killed after I have constantly told my players that its OK to run. The other find the Ward, getting much needed healing and even some weapons. They decide to take an extended rest, which I rolled and it came up that they would be safe for now. When the players wake the paladin is with them, as is Karim now (He carried him there, players never bothered to wonder how the paladin got there though...). Karim discovers that the Wizard is a Wizard (Who does not have his Spellbook, being a slave w/ no possessions and unable to casts his daily's), the players being very secretive of their identities for some reason, and tells him to find Milo over by the (trap) area. Getting a holy symbol from the cleric, having the cleric use his key to unlock the chains, and then healing everyone, they make their way there.
However, the mage that broke out near the trap area has a guard friend. This was the first real encounter with enemies with more than 1 HP, which scared them and threw them off when they found that their attacks didn't kill them right away. So after working together, they find Milo hiding in a crate. It's at this point we had to start getting things done, it was nearing 6. This is also when the Warlock showed up, who I introduce later.
So Karim tells Milo what's up (me talking to myself FTW), and Milo tell them alright, I'll try and disable the traps. Karim gives him a set of tools (I've preplanned this out and I have a story to everything so don't ask why didn't Milo have them to start...). So a fun little game where Milo rolls his thievery and ask a player to step forward. If he passes, the trap is disables on that square, if not, some spears come up and hit (maybe) the player. They manage to get to a doorway which is where they were heading and open it up to find the dagger of Slight Annoyance (Dagger w/ Duelist), bookshelves, and an unconscious Warlock. The Wizard searches through the books and finds his spellbook (Who the main villain collects as souvenirs) and all is good, no one wonders why there was an unconscious Warlock. So at this point we have to finish. A slave yells from a distance that they found the exit and the players make their way there. Basically being told they had to kill the Slavemaster, wh guarded the exit, the players run in to find dead slave bodies and blood everywhere. Bane stands up from his makeshift throne of corpses and tells the players, "So, more have come to reap my judgement. Bring it!" cause we need to finish this game up and I didn't wanna bother role playing too heavily. Slavemaster Bane was a lvl 4 Solo Human berserker with teh savage berserker template. Fun fun! So battle starts, the players are struggling to kill Bane, who uses a chain whip with Resounding enchant, which I abused to make it on hit players are dazed. So Bane got a +7 vs AC, 2d6 + 4 dmg, gets to make a standard melee attack when hit by a melee attack, and I added a power that lets him attack twice before he dies when reduced to 0 HP. He managed to kill both the Warlord and Paladin with his final attack, nearly killed the fighter3 times, scared the crap out of the wizard and warlock, and never moved cause the area they were in was small and his chain whip had reach.
The players barely manage to kill him, revive the dying players, and while Bane laughed as he lay there dying, the Fighter stabs his sword into his head. Karim and the others come out (who stayed behind the door due to a surprise guard attack from behind) and open the doorway leading out. once out, the find that they are no where near civilized lands and decide "...hey, why not make a village?" Then it ends.
/sigh
Soo yeah. We skipped ALOT and the players barely fought anything, but loved the bane fight soooo much.
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Nice I would have enjoyed playing that game ;D
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Alright, just wanting to get the opinions of some people.
The Fighter in my campaign wants to change his class to the Avenger, from PHB2. He feels that our Paladin not only has more HP but deals more damage right now too, defeating the purpose of his Fighter. The way we left off the first session was that things were going to be very open ended. We talked for a few minutes and I told him I would think about it, I really wasn't looking forward to anyone changing their classes until they either died and had to make new characters or something. I'm even dabbling with the idea that his character can just become an NPC and this new PC guy just shows up (I am SO creative!)
Anyway, just for opinions sake, what would you guys do in my position?
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Bee rape perhaps?
For the few fights he had, it wouldn't be game breaking that he simply changes his class. I doubt his character is fleshed out (make that double doubt since he's a fighter) so it wouldn't be like Gandalf turning barbarian (which per Peter Jackson, he is.)
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Actually the Fighter is the most fleshed out character. He's the one player at the table who's been in another D&D group for just a while. In the first session we all found that he has an extreme dislike and vengeance for undead creatures, has horrible night terrors, and is willing to sacrifice an NPC who warms them about traps, to try and throw said NPC into the traps just to see if he was lying.
Aside from out Diplomatic Warlord and weapon hungry Paladin, he's made a mark on everyone me thinks.
But would it be so simple to just change him from a Fighter to an Avenger? Or should I have him make an entirely new character?
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Aren't avengers religious zealot assassins basically? If so, he could have a vision from his patron god and become a fanatic overnight. If he only's level 1, I don't think it would break the campaign honestly. I let players have a lot of leeway when the campaign and/or system is new to them.
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That's what I'm trying to do. I told em today he can make an Avenger, and whether or not he wants to make an entirely new character or transform his fighter into it is up to him. Thx for opinions!
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...willing to sacrifice an NPC who warms them about traps, to try and throw said NPC into the traps just to see if he was lying.
That's one for the player logic thread.
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Alright, had another session yesterday. Barely got anything done in the 4 hours of play. Quick wrapup:
Slaves and players make ti to town. Avenger, Paladin and Wizard immediately run ahead to loot their camp. Wizard tries to blow up doors and buildings. They are told to stop and to sit down and stfu. Then one of the main NPC's tells them and the other slaves their situation, the supplies they need etc. The players seem interested. Deciding that water is most important at the moment, the Avenger, Paladin and Warlock go towards a waterfall far to the East. I make it a skill challenge and after about 10 minutes they make it there, only to be greeted by some rats in which really bad rolling causes both the Avenger and Paladin to go unconscious. They end up winning thx to Warlock, get water, but now it's night. During this time, the Wizard tell me he wants to rest, I tell him if he does he will be taking himself out of the game for a bit while time catches up. He says fine, he needed to rest to get his dailies back from trying to blow crap up. Nearing the end of the session now, the Warlord shows up (late to session) and just hangs with the Wizard. And that's it.
I admit I was just a tad under prepared with some things, but when the players seem to just want to destroy everything they have it makes me sad looking into the work I'm putting into this. Now that they have made a decision as to where they are and what they want to do, I can plan out alot more things NP. Now I have much better direction.
But now I have a problem, how can I keep players from just destroying stuff? They know their actions can get them back in shackles the slaves kept, and that they are outnumbered by aaaalot. However they seem to just want to steal and destroy everything. I had a talk with them about this and they all just kind of gave the answer that "It's what my character would do" bullcrap. I sense I may have to work on character development with these guys.
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Don't give 'em to means to blow things up, I guess. Or why don't you turn it around and have a bunch of people want to kill them and attempt to kill them by blowing their houses or place to sleep.
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No, it's okay to let them destroy the things if they understand the consequences. The slaves tell them that they are untrustworthy and too dangerous to live with them. The slaves treat them like unstable lunatics and fear and hate them as much as the people who enslaved them. Then, if your players are bent on destruction, let them find the slavers and wage a war against them.
But the players should know that their actions have consequences and they are NO LONGER HEROES IN THE EYES OF THE EX-SLAVES. This should be motivation enough to change.
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No, it's okay to let them destroy the things if they understand the consequences. The slaves tell them that they are untrustworthy and too dangerous to live with them. The slaves treat them like unstable lunatics and fear and hate them as much as the people who enslaved them. Then, if your players are bent on destruction, let them find the slavers and wage a war against them.
But the players should know that their actions have consequences and they are NO LONGER HEROES IN THE EYES OF THE EX-SLAVES. This should be motivation enough to change.
I plan to have their actions do just that. Ive told them that every decision they make has an impact on everything. The wizard was tackled by the slaves and forced to wear shackles again. And he was told that he is not to use his magic unless otherwise stated while in the camp. I asked a fellow DM-ish friend of mine and he told me to just let the guy get killed by the slaves to be an example to the others.
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And honestly if your players just want to wreck shit you should retool your campaign to reflect that.
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Oh, its definitely set up for them to just kill everyone. Ive prepared for that.
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is this an evil campaign?
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Its a constantly changing idea with several endings depending upon the actions the characters take at this point. Depending on who's side they ally themselves with, unite everyone, or kill everyone, will determine the kind of middle/end-game content. for example, lets say they all kill the other species in the valley. Only their village is left, Then what happens is in the middle one of the most helpful of NPC's will try to converse with the gods at a secret shrine in the valley (which was under the control of one of the species), however in doing so the sight becomes corrupted due to a trinket he picked up earlier in game and he becomes a demon. He's sealed inside the shrine however and the End game is to kill him and end this unnatural undead attacks on the village. That's one semi-rough draft of an ending.
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And honestly if your players just want to wreck shit you should retool your campaign to reflect that.
I have never purposely wrecked shit in your campaigns... ::)
This is actually the best advice about destruction heavy PCs that could be given. PCs need to learn that they are actually integral beings in the world they have found themselves in. That they have just as much freedom to do what they want and suffer the same consequences. GM God can't be saving them ever.
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Well i've had another session and with only 3/5 of the people there it went really really really fast. Game time they got through almost a week in 4-5 hours, whereas the previous week with 5/5 people they got through a day in 5 hours. I believe I now know who my more troublesome players are. Anyway, I wanted to know if it would be an interesting idea to keep a wiki recording all the things players do and the information they learn about. I've started one here
http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaign/village-builders
And i've had alot of fun updating it, even if only 2-3 players look at it. It's become a way for me to remember what has and will eventually happen. But in your guys opinions, should information like this be available to players or should it be for them to remember/record all this?
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My players like to be ignorant. At least I infer that desire from their apparently lack of modivation to understand anything regarding the setting outside the instantly applicable or in the effort to secure additional advantages.
I still record the games and they can have copies if they ask. I haven't done Obsidian Portal because my players don't use it. If they did I would. If your players use it, do it.
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The Warlock in my campaign, and also my girlfriend who is actually excited to finally play D&D, is having some issues with her character. Given that the Warlock in 4E seems to have few spells and she tends to roll badly on her turn in combat is making her feel useless in a party with the Paladin and his 9+ powers and the Wizard and his AoE attacks and the Warlord who gives everyone bonuses to attacks etc etc. She feels that her character doesn't contribute to the fights and is thus useless.
She came to me with this problem after a session and I explained to her that even though she tends to roll poorly in fights, she has contributed the the village building more than the other players and is in a sense more popular with the ex-slaves. I am in no way a DM who plays favorites during a session. However I do wish for her to feel more useful in combat without having to give her some powerful items or multiple items. Resources are scarce after all.
So my question is, how can I make a Warlock more effective in combat w/o giving her items/weapons that make her more powerful, if there is a way aside from that.
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A level 1 warlock could have as many powers as a level 1 paladin. It just depends on build. What pact is she?
Unfortunately, if a player always rolls poorly, she will not be very effective. That's just a weakness of 4E. There aren't many effects that still do something on a miss. Perhaps there are some better abilities in Arcane Power.
I would let her rebuild her character so that it can be more effective. Don't give her extra items or powers.
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She needs an 18 in her primary attack stat and to take Weapon Expertise with her implenent (rod or wand, whichever), that's a +5 to attack at first level, +6 if she gets her prime shot. With a +6 at level one shoud should hit anything she needs to as long as she rolls double digits.
There's also attacking the right defense. Eldrich Blast attacks Reflex, most Pact tricks attack Fortitude or Will.
If she just isn't rolling high, than there's nothing to be done for her attack options. If she is considertantly rolling low on the same die she needs to check it to see if it has become rounded or planed and is more inclined to roll low or just get another die.
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Since these were most of my players first time playing d&d and mine too, I asked if they were ok using a standard build set or whatever (16, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10) and they agreed. I did this because their first characters were either way too powerful (Wizard had 3 18's and his lowest stat was 14) or too low (Warlord's highest stat was 13...). This way everyone just kind of started out similar and balanced. Just for these characters however, if they wanted a new character after a few sessions they could roll the stats.
But looking over her stats as an Eladrin Warlock using the Infernal Pact, she gets a +2 bonus to Dex and Int, neither of which are really useful to a warlock at first level whose spells rely on Con and Cha. Her stats are Str 10, Con 16, Dex 13, Int 16, Wis 12, Cha 13 and she uses Con as her major stat (As a quick note she is obsessed with WoW and plays a warlock on it, who needs alot of Stam/Con and is in a sense basing this character off that). For whatever her reasons she took Jack of all Trades as her feat too. She managed to find a staff of fiery might +1 which lets her reroll a fire damage dice, however since its a staff she can't use it as an implement. Now that I think back the Wizard could sue the staff and she could use his wand he found...
So what i'm getting is she need an implement for sure to help, I know that I need some new dice because the 'extra' dice I have feel really light and everyone agrees that they roll low, which is the dice she has been using.
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well of course she will be underpowered if the other players are cheating. Trade the staff and wand, get some new dice and make sure no one cheats. Force them to use the stat arrays.
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I don't think the players are cheating. When they made characters the first time I did it on a one on one basis and helped each of them learn how to do it. So those first stats were just lucky or unlucky, which is why everyone is using the standard array I have them using. They understood and all of them agreed to use it.
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You had them roll stats? This is Fourth Edition man, POINT BUY!
And if Warlock player is being dumb with her choices, than she's not going to do well, simple as that. I mean, if she's using an Implement she literally can't use (she needs to be able to use staffs as implements in order to get that fire reroll, by the way) than she needs to reread the book. Has she read the book? I find alot of players haven't. They've looked through their class section, they've maybe looked at the skills and feats, but they haven't really read the rules and they certainly haven't read the character creation process rules.
And any player who doesn't have their own dice is not committed the game. I have three in my group who don't have their own dice. One is a bum who won't buy his own. The others, I think, just aren't committed enough to RPGs to get their own dice.
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I don't think the players are cheating. When they made characters the first time I did it on a one on one basis and helped each of them learn how to do it. So those first stats were just lucky or unlucky, which is why everyone is using the standard array I have them using. They understood and all of them agreed to use it.
There are multiple legitimate stat arrays but rolling random stats in 4E is cheating. Everything is much more finely tuned than in previous editions and variable stats break a lot of the assumptions with 4E balance. Of course this is a big change from previous editions, even 3E so I understand if your players didn't realize this when they started. Although, to be honest, any player character with 3 stats at 18 at level 1 should know they are being munchkin dicks unless they are brand new to D&D.
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All but one of my players are new to D&D, practically role play in general. Aside from a few feeble attempts at Rifts and new WoD games in high school, we have little experience, and that's only counting 3/5 of us.
Only one guy has read the rules more so than the others but he's more experienced at the trpgs in general. My GF has the least amount of experience, but she's honestly trying which I'm happy for. Sometime before our next session we are getting her some dice because she's committed to having fun in this game.
In future characters yeah i'll use the point buy system. The only real problem I'm having is that the players don't really have the time to look over the rules and learn more about the game. We all have busy schedules and some of us work (including me). We only have 1 PHB which is mine that they pass around during the game.
I understand our methods for gaming is most likely bad and we can improve, but no on has the money to get more books or the time to really read them. The fact that I can get them together during the week is surprising but we manage.
But the real question was how I can improve the warlocks attack/damage in combat w/o the help of items.
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Oh. Nice to see her trying then.
Everybody pitch in between 5 and 10 dollars and buy a digital copy at DriveThruRPG or another online E-Venter. The cost is 1/2 that of a print copy and you get three or four downloads of the book per purchase. Have everything download it. Or download it once and copy it to everybody.
And it is certainly not possible to find free copies online because all roleplayers are law abiding folks.
If players want to play the game smoothly and within the "official rules", they need to read the book. It takes a very minimal effort to acquire access to a book, especially a digital copy.
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Ooo talked with my friend and he has most of the books in PDF format he torrented. I think i'll have everyone bring a flash dive and give them all a copy of that.
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Ooo talked with my friend and he has most of the books in PDF format he torrented. I think i'll have everyone bring a flash dive and give them all a copy of that.
You can't say that word! The government is watching for people who do that word. We'll all end up in a naked pyramid in prison!
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Just get a subscription to DDI and use character builder.
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Just get a subscription to DDI and use character builder.
Or don't get one, use the character builder, and only play the game up to Level 3.
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Alright, I think I'm going to have my first session of my campaign this Saturday. im nervous, feels like there's a lot not done but Saturday is a good day to have it. If anyone has any last tips or ideas for it please let me know. Thanks!
If you mess A SINGLE RULE up, the entire game is RUINED FOREVER.
true story.
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Well...back to the warlock...luckily in the first game they found a 'Magic Wand' I threw in there for fun, and no one wanted it. So of course they just gave it to the Wizard (the warlock character is really really shy...) who is the acting pack mule, and since his implement is Staff I can say that he was simply unable to tell what it is. So since he hasn't been here for a session or 2 (I forget), the current party has decided that the staff will go to him and he will give the wand to the Warlock (hopefully) in which case I will reveal it's a 'Wand of ---" and everyone is happy.
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Wand of Luk[sic]?
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The party is having the wizard carry the extra gear?
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Yaaa...right now the magic items they have aren't anything super useful, just kind of in there to show them how they work. We have one kinda good weapon that dropped of the Slave master, a Chain Whip with Resounding Enchant which none of the players can use w/o a penalty (it's there more for the roleplaying aspect if anything. There's the 'Magic Wand +1', A staff of fiery might +1 (which belonged to the evil Bob or whatever bad guy which I believe the players have figured out it's him finally) and a Shield of Bashing +1 they got by going back into the dungeon and killing off a bunch of undead guys.
The wizard carry's anything the rest of the party doesn't want immediately for whatever reason. He's only made it to 2 sessions and one of them he effectively took himself out of because he wanted to get his Daily powers back while everyone else was adventuring . The Paladin is a weapons and armor whore and is willing to fight other players for something that increases his AC by 1 (We had a debate as to whether the Paladin gets more armor and if the Warlord gets Any at all...). He's a bit of my problematic meta/munchkin gamer but he realizes what he's doing and is trying to stop, and he has to some degree which is nice. The Warlock is entirely new to roleplaying and effectively won't try to get anything new unless it's given to her. I've talked to her about this and we've come up with a 'plan' to get her to be more vocal. The Warlord himself is ObSeSsEd with the fact he's a 'Tactical' Warlord and has his entire back story and personality revolve around this. He tends to take whatever the Paladin doesn't want/need. And then there's the Avenger. The insane/angry roleplaying avenger who is the 'star' of my campaign. He has more experience at roleplaying than the rest. He likes the spotlight on him and he uses his turn to maximize productivity of his character. I tend to cut his turn short (press the pause button) after a few minutes and let the others go for a turn or two just so he doesn't have the light on him so much which is working out well. And I think that sums up my party...
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They sound like typical teenage players. Also sounds like most of the group seems to be attempting to better themselves so you've got a major leg up on alot of groups.
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Yes I'm thankful for that. I'm considering bringing in another player, a friend from High School who was trying to write a book (fantasy novel with kickass fight scenes actually). Since I have a session nearly every week and it seems like only 3/5 of players can make it, having 4/6 (or 2/3 woot math skillz) should be more worth it and easier for players with encounters. He's pretty into the fantasy genre and i know for a fact that he'd give it a try.
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Sounds like a plan. Be careful putting an author into a player seat though, they can try to hijack the story.
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Oh i just remembered something funny. It had to do when we did the first session and they were fighting some guys. They didn't know what they had to get tot hit them AC wise. So when the Paladin finally figures it out, this is how it went in character (cause he tried to RP it)
Paladin- Hey guys, I believe the enemy has an AC of 16!
Wizard- What the hell are you talking about AC?
Paladin- It's what we have to roll to hit them!
Wizard - Roll what!? I'm trying to kill guys and your over there rolling in something speaking gibberish!
Paladin- ...I feel dumb.