The Role Playing Public Radio Forums
General Category => Role Playing Public Radio Podcast => : Mckma April 16, 2010, 01:22:41 AM
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I really liked the episode, first one to really distract me completely from the work I was doing. I liked Mike's input and inspired me to check out their podcast. I don't know why, but I never really thought about the disliking the system versus thinking it's a bad system idea. Anyway, I had another thought, but I forgot...
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A minor point that got brought up; infinite wild shaping. That's actually quite easy. While Master of Many Forms doesn't grant it anymore, the Warshaper class (Complete Warrior, IIRC) grants an ability at level 5 that allows you to change your Wild Shape/Polymorph/etc. form in the middle of the duration without expending another use. And since if you have Wild Shape, you're pretty much guaranteed to get at least twenty-four hours' worth of it eventually, it's effectively infinite. You can then add in Master of Many Forms to add breadth and just stay Wild Shaped at all times, shifting into your default form when you don't need any other form.
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When I first played 3.5, I thought the Master of Many Forms had unlimited shape-change, but then I checked and was disappointed when it didn't (I didn't think to look at what the shape-changer subtype actually was)...
By the way, in looking through books, I found an awesome class name, "Master Transmogrifist"
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When I first played 3.5, I thought the Master of Many Forms had unlimited shape-change, but then I checked and was disappointed when it didn't (I didn't think to look at what the shape-changer subtype actually was)...
By the way, in looking through books, I found an awesome class name, "Master Transmogrifist"
That's officially my new rap name. Look out, nerdcore hip-hop!
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The complaints against 4th ed. not feeling like D&D are numerous amongst the net, same in number probably with the video-game analogies.
I wouldn't say this argument is entirely dismissable but is mainly made by fanboys screaming.
The general argument against this 'feeling' is to say ignore the game or take the system as a stand-alone different entity. However this is no argument against the 'feelings' at all.
I think the video-game balance, rather ironically, is a complaint born from the largest complaint of 3.5. This is game balance. People say that 4th ed. over-stepped the mark to making all the classes so balanced as to become very, very, similiar. They see this as an attempt to make a video-game RPG-esque system of balance. This then goes onto contribute to what people feel is cheating them from D&D feelings, a kind of elitist pen and paper world.
I don't think the guys on the developmental team of 4th edition have responded to these backlashes well. An argument I've read from them is that "3.5 had expanded far too much in sourcebooks and splat to the point a new edition had to be made...well so be it we did make one." (I'm paraphrasing heavily here)
I really don't want to retread the arguments of 4th edition again. We've all done it at least once. I dislike it quite a bit but much like Winston Churchill said of Democracy, "It's a bad system but it's the best one we have right now" by that I mean that their will never be this Holy Grail of gaming systems and that you simply have to choose to love a system inspite of what flaws it may have. The arguments arise when people protect their chosen system whilst ignoring or rolling in it's flaws.
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Fuck.
How many threads on this forum are going to go back to the old 4th Ed bullshit.
IT NO LONGER CREATES STIMULATING CONVERSATION
Leave it be!
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I rather like 4th edition. While I feel it is a bit limited with what you can do with it, it's infinitely easier to to run and play, so I'll trade a slight lack of breadth for an easier dive into depth...
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lol It was me who got the copy of World of Synnibarr signed by them. I actually appreciate the book now.
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hahaha
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On the Catalyst Labs front, their official announcement reads a little differently. It sounds (to me) as though the financial issue wasn't a malicious act, and that the person involved a.) didn't necessarily understand what was happening, b.) cooperated fully in the investigation to figure out precisely what had happened, and c.) is arranging some method to return the money.
Here's the relevant quote from their press release:
While we wish the review had only uncovered positive news, we also discovered our accounting procedures had not been updated as the company continued to grow. The result was that business funds had been co-mingled with the personal funds of one of the owners. We believe the missing funds were the result of bad habits that began alongside the creation of the company, which was initially a small hobby group. Upon further investigation, in which the owner has willingly participated, the owner in question now owes the company a significant balance and is working to help rectify the situation.
Eclipse Phase will continue, as will CthulhuTech, just not with Catalyst as partners in publishing them. Posthuman Studios and WildFire (respectively to the two aforementioned game lines) will continue to publish them. Catalyst is concentrating it's resources on their two flagship games of Battletech and Shadowrun. Also, they plan to complete and release Leviathan.
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lol It was me who got the copy of World of Synnibarr signed by them. I actually appreciate the book now.
Now you have internet fame! How exciting.
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On the Catalyst Labs front, their official announcement reads a little differently. It sounds (to me) as though the financial issue wasn't a malicious act, and that the person involved a.) didn't necessarily understand what was happening, b.) cooperated fully in the investigation to figure out precisely what had happened, and c.) is arranging some method to return the money.
Here's the relevant quote from their press release:
While we wish the review had only uncovered positive news, we also discovered our accounting procedures had not been updated as the company continued to grow. The result was that business funds had been co-mingled with the personal funds of one of the owners. We believe the missing funds were the result of bad habits that began alongside the creation of the company, which was initially a small hobby group. Upon further investigation, in which the owner has willingly participated, the owner in question now owes the company a significant balance and is working to help rectify the situation.
Eclipse Phase will continue, as will CthulhuTech, just not with Catalyst as partners in publishing them. Posthuman Studios and WildFire (respectively to the two aforementioned game lines) will continue to publish them. Catalyst is concentrating it's resources on their two flagship games of Battletech and Shadowrun. Also, they plan to complete and release Leviathan.
Im Sure the guy from Enron was a good guy, and didnt realy mean to do it too, you know you just kinda dont Realized your getting an extra 800,000 bucks.
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A minor point that got brought up; infinite wild shaping. That's actually quite easy. While Master of Many Forms doesn't grant it anymore, the Warshaper class (Complete Warrior, IIRC) grants an ability at level 5 that allows you to change your Wild Shape/Polymorph/etc. form in the middle of the duration without expending another use. And since if you have Wild Shape, you're pretty much guaranteed to get at least twenty-four hours' worth of it eventually, it's effectively infinite. You can then add in Master of Many Forms to add breadth and just stay Wild Shaped at all times, shifting into your default form when you don't need any other form.
oh 3E I will never get tired of your game breaking combos
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Im Sure the guy from Enron was a good guy, and didnt realy mean to do it too, you know you just kinda dont Realized your getting an extra 800,000 bucks.
*shrugs* Maybe. I'm just saying that I'm not seeing a lot of animosity coming form them, and that unless I have good reason, I don't see why I shouldn't take them at face value. Normally when there is some sort of malfeasance the wronged party doesn't have much of a problem telling you what a tool the other guy is, so when they seem (again, IMO) to go out of their way to NOT go that route, I am willing to roll with it.
To me, that release sounds more like an "Ooops. Screw-ups on all sides. Sorry All." than "That rat-bastid done us wrong"
Anyway. The bright point in all of this is that it doesn't look like any of the game lines are going to suffer, and I suspect that we will see all of them represented at GenCon.
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I just got done watching, MATT DAMON!, Informent, and well I think that would open eyes haha!
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oh 3E I will never get tired of your game breaking combos
Actually, that combination is vastly weaker than if you just took Druid to level 20. You are giving up pretty much all spellcasting beyond third-level spells, after all, and Shapechange (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shapechange.htm) alone is by far more powerful than any grade of Wild Shape.
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This guy above me knows what he's talking about. I approve.
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This guy above me knows what he's talking about. I approve.
Gal.
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oh 3E I will never get tired of your game breaking combos
Actually, that combination is vastly weaker than if you just took Druid to level 20. You are giving up pretty much all spellcasting beyond third-level spells, after all, and Shapechange (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shapechange.htm) alone is by far more powerful than any grade of Wild Shape.
Ah that makes sense. I always read that druid 20 was a powerhouse - it came up a lot in the various 3E/pathfinder fighter sucks arguments I read on rpg.net and SA.
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This guy above me knows what he's talking about. I approve.
Gal.
Two things:
1) If RJ wants to call you a boy, he can. Don't you know that RJ is always right? (please don't be offended by this comment as it is meant to make fun of RJ and not you).
2) Let's face it, in 99% of every other situation, RJ would have been right.
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(angry face)
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This guy above me knows what he's talking about. I approve.
Gal.
Two things:
1) If RJ wants to call you a boy, he can. Don't you know that RJ is always right? (please don't be offended by this comment as it is meant to make fun of RJ and not you).
2) Let's face it, in 99% of every other situation, RJ would have been right.
RJ: The reason there are no girls on the internet?
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hahahahahahahahaha
That will become funny later.
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RJ is always right, we all know that.
The more serious matter is why an icky girl is on the RPPR forums.
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I'll let you know as soon as I find an icky one hereabouts.
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we have had icky girls on the forums befor, they posted at the most 10 comments for all of them so... 4 more and you doubled the post count wich im prety sure takes you outta the icky girl catagory and puts you into a RPPR blooming nerd.
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I'll let you know as soon as I find an icky one hereabouts.
we have had icky girls on the forums befor, they posted at the most 10 comments for all of them so... 4 more and you doubled the post count wich im prety sure takes you outta the icky girl catagory and puts you into a RPPR blooming nerd.
We'll see. We'll all wait and see.
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I don't play enough games to have a dislike of them
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http://mxyzplk.wordpress.com/2010/04/21/the-hammer-comes-down-on-catalyst-games/
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http://mxyzplk.wordpress.com/2010/04/21/the-hammer-comes-down-on-catalyst-games/
Ouch, that sucks.
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http://mxyzplk.wordpress.com/2010/04/21/the-hammer-comes-down-on-catalyst-games/
Fuck WildFire.
They should be cognitive of the situation, not acting like whiny little babies.
Yeah I understand your own situation WildFire, but calm the fuck down.
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Catalsyt hasn't been paying their royalties to WildFire; when somebody stiffs you, you file for legal action.
I'm with WildFire on this one.
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Catalsyt hasn't been paying their royalties to WildFire; when somebody stiffs you, you file for legal action.
I'm with WildFire on this one.
This.
I realize I was earlier saying that Catalyst wasn't looking bad, but the details coming out constitute the "good reason" that I mentioned previously.
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Kroack you have to understand that this is business. It's nothing personal but you gotta make sure you get paid for your work.
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Kroack you have to understand that this is business. It's nothing personal but you gotta make sure you get paid for your work.
Its a lot like working that corner and doing that stroll. You gots to get yo paper stacks if you out hookin! Otherwise yo pimp is gunna smack you around.
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Kroack you have to understand that this is business. It's nothing personal but you gotta make sure you get paid for your work.
Its a lot like working that corner and doing that stroll. You gots to get yo paper stacks if you out hookin! Otherwise yo pimp is gunna smack you around.
And Wildfire isn't a very well known hoe. Their staff has a grand total of 3 dudes: president (developer), vice president (proofer), and town crier (artist and forum updater). Everything else is done through freelancers and they have to, you know, pay the freelancers.
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Kroack you have to understand that this is business. It's nothing personal but you gotta make sure you get paid for your work.
Its a lot like working that corner and doing that stroll. You gots to get yo paper stacks if you out hookin! Otherwise yo pimp is gunna smack you around.
And Wildfire isn't a very well known hoe. Their staff has a grand total of 3 dudes: president (developer), vice president (proofer), and town crier (artist and forum updater). Everything else is done through freelancers and they have to, you know, pay the freelancers.
While this is true I think it may be missing the point. It would appear that Catalyst had a payment agreement with the company, they hadn't defaulted on that agreement but the company acted rashly in demanding payment whilst still discussing the payment option with Catalyst.
I'd still call it a dick move. These publishers make massive investments into projects they don't know will flop or be a big success, that would explain them wishing to pay off the initial batch in a slow process, or quicker if it sells well.
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I'd agree it was a dick move if the decision had been made swiftly. I've only been able to get more than basic information from the WildFire side of things so my overall view is likely tilted. The way the WildFire staff tells it, they've been having payment problems regarding royalities from Catalyst for sometime now.
As I understand it, CthulhuTech books only recently came out as PDF downloads from DriveThruRPG because Catalyst held the rights to the material so WildFire couldn't "e-publish" or whatever the right term is.
So, WildFire felt the terms of agreement where not to their liking (I don't know if they felt they where unfair or just wanted more money, I don't personally care either way) and has filed legal action following failed negotiations. Like I said, don't know the Catalyst side of events.
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I'd agree it was a dick move if the decision had been made swiftly. I've only been able to get more than basic information from the WildFire side of things so my overall view is likely tilted. The way the WildFire staff tells it, they've been having payment problems regarding royalities from Catalyst for sometime now.
As I understand it, CthulhuTech books only recently came out as PDF downloads from DriveThruRPG because Catalyst held the rights to the material so WildFire couldn't "e-publish" or whatever the right term is.
So, WildFire felt the terms of agreement where not to their liking (I don't know if they felt they where unfair or just wanted more money, I don't personally care either way) and has filed legal action following failed negotiations. Like I said, don't know the Catalyst side of events.
As I am given to understand, WilfFire agreed to accept the remainder of the physical CthulhuTech books as payment. However, when those were delivered, the number in the boxes didn't match up with the numbers on the agreement. Their legal action is an attempt to get the remainder of what is owed them, and was not a rash decision.
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While this is true I think it may be missing the point. It would appear that Catalyst had a payment agreement with the company, they hadn't defaulted on that agreement but the company acted rashly in demanding payment whilst still discussing the payment option with Catalyst.
I'd still call it a dick move. These publishers make massive investments into projects they don't know will flop or be a big success, that would explain them wishing to pay off the initial batch in a slow process, or quicker if it sells well.
I really can't fault 'em for filing like they did. Game developers are not rich people. They need money to feed the family and pay the mortgage, and now that money they worked so hard for is in jeopardy and they are understandably afraid because this situation can put them in very real financial peril. At the very worst, they still have their freelancers to pay before even putting food in their own mouths, and without that money, they can't pay the freelancers, so they'll get sued for not paying their freelancers and they are going out of business, too. They can't afford to be patient.
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Kroack you have to understand that this is business. It's nothing personal but you gotta make sure you get paid for your work.
Yeah i guess.
:'(
But it just seems like kicking a helpless baby.
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Kroack you have to understand that this is business. It's nothing personal but you gotta make sure you get paid for your work.
Yeah i guess.
:'(
But it just seems like kicking a helpless baby.
I fail to see anything wrong with doing that^
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Another solid episode folks. This is what other podcasts should hope to achieve. You guys are one of the few podcasts I still listen to as many of the others have become so horrid in last year that I can't stand them. Thanks guys for keeping it real, and keeping it real good.