Author Topic: Licensed RPGs are the devil  (Read 13253 times)

clockworkjoe

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Licensed RPGs are the devil
« on: January 12, 2011, 08:32:53 PM »
https://www.indiepressrevolution.com/blog/2011/01/op-ed-the-licensing-trap/

my response:

This is the weirdest critique I've ever read about the tabletop RPG industry in a long time. First off, I think you're wrong about licensed RPGs dominating the 'big' releases of the last 5 years - 4E D&D came out in 2008 and Pathfinder after that so they obviously own that category. (technically nWoD came out in 2004 but it's released a ton of material in the last 5 years obviously) You're also ignoring the Warhammer 40k RPGS (since they started as wargames, I wouldn't call them licensed games in the same sense you're referring to movie and TV show licensed games) Furthermore, I wouldn't call some of those releases 'big' - who's playing Army of Darkness or Elric now?

Also, you are really criticizing the tabletop rpg industry for a LACK of creativity? Really? <i>Really?</i> I mean, there are many, many possible complaints you can make about this industry and hobby but if it has one thing, one trait it is creativity. It blows my mind for you to even not realize how creative RPGs are compared to basically everything else - if you examine the sheer breadth and depth of the games that are out there, you find some of the weirdest and wildest ideas put on paper - only the best speculative fiction exceeds it in terms of creativity.

Look at games like Eclipse Phase, Don't Rest Your Head, Kerberos Club, etc etc etc. There is no shortage of extremely creative games being released.

Honestly, I think the biggest problems RPGs have are in communicating this creativity to a larger audience or in any audience at all but that's an entirely different discussion.

Moondog

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Re: Licensed RPGs are the devil
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2011, 08:44:37 PM »
You got that right.  Eclipse Phase and Don't Rest Your Head are both books that I sat down, read all the way through, and went 'goddamn, this owns'.
Currently Reading: FIGHT!: The Fighting Game RPG! (it owns)

doctorscraps

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Re: Licensed RPGs are the devil
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2011, 12:53:12 AM »
So...What is this guys aim? Promote a hobby where everything is home-brewed? Is this some sort of Hipster Conspiracy?
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Re: Licensed RPGs are the devil
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2011, 09:24:42 AM »
...some sort of Hipster Conspiracy?

:o

Oh man, that is so becoming a DRYH NPC group if/when I run it again!

Joven

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Re: Licensed RPGs are the devil
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2011, 03:37:27 PM »
So...What is this guys aim? Promote a hobby where everything is home-brewed? Is this some sort of Hipster Conspiracy?

Apparently you're not creative unless other people rip off your creativity to make a movie based off of it?

Since when is having a movie made out of an IP a reflexion of how good or bad the industry as a whole is creatively? Movies, video games, books and etc based off of other things, in general, suck. (theres exceptions, sure, but for every Dark Knight or Star Wars KOTOR theres at least 10 'Last Airbender' or 'Doom' movies, and its marketing law that every movie release has a crappy by the numbers video game released with it.)

Also, RPGs are kind of a niche market, so expecting there to be a New World Campaign movie (as awesome as that would be) or Monsters and other Childish Things video game, is a little unrealistic, and shouldnt really be used as a point to say that the industry is creatively dying.

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Re: Licensed RPGs are the devil
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2011, 04:02:33 PM »
Apparently you're not creative unless other people rip off your creativity to make a movie based off of it?

Since when is having a movie made out of an IP a reflexion of how good or bad the industry as a whole is creatively? Movies, video games, books and etc based off of other things, in general, suck. (theres exceptions, sure, but for every Dark Knight or Star Wars KOTOR theres at least 10 'Last Airbender' or 'Doom' movies, and its marketing law that every movie release has a crappy by the numbers video game released with it.)

Also, RPGs are kind of a niche market, so expecting there to be a New World Campaign movie (as awesome as that would be) or Monsters and other Childish Things video game, is a little unrealistic, and shouldnt really be used as a point to say that the industry is creatively dying.

I think they're talking about this the other way around.  RPGs based on movies and videogames.

Quote
But for better or worse, that era — the era of extensive RPG lines that develop an intellectual property beyond rules and game play — has come to an end. Take a look at a list of the major RPG releases over the past five years. That list would include:

Army Of Darkness the RPG (2005)
The Serenity RPG (2005)
Starship Troopers (2005)
World Of Warcraft the RPG (2nd Ed. 2005)
Babylon 5 RPG and Fact Book (2003/2006)
Battlestar Galactica the RPG (2007)
Conan the RPG (2003/2007)
Elric Of Melniboné (2007)
The Star Wars RPG (Saga Edition) (2007)
The Mouse Guard RPG (2008)
Trail Of Cthulhu (2008)
Doctor Who: Adventures In Time And Space, the RPG (2009)
The Supernatural RPG (2009)
DC Adventures RPG (2010)
The Dragon Age RPG (2010)
The Dresden Files RPG (2010)
The Leverage RPG (2010)
The Smallville RPG (2010)

What do they all have in common? Every one of them is a licensed RPG.

Also, I'm not sure what you would do in a Smallville RPG.  Bitch about school until Superman shows up?

clockworkjoe

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Re: Licensed RPGs are the devil
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2011, 04:15:39 PM »
smallville slash fanfic writers could answer your question

Joven

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Re: Licensed RPGs are the devil
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2011, 04:20:09 PM »
Apparently you're not creative unless other people rip off your creativity to make a movie based off of it?

Since when is having a movie made out of an IP a reflexion of how good or bad the industry as a whole is creatively? Movies, video games, books and etc based off of other things, in general, suck. (theres exceptions, sure, but for every Dark Knight or Star Wars KOTOR theres at least 10 'Last Airbender' or 'Doom' movies, and its marketing law that every movie release has a crappy by the numbers video game released with it.)

Also, RPGs are kind of a niche market, so expecting there to be a New World Campaign movie (as awesome as that would be) or Monsters and other Childish Things video game, is a little unrealistic, and shouldnt really be used as a point to say that the industry is creatively dying.

I think they're talking about this the other way around.  RPGs based on movies and videogames.

The idea I got from reading it, is that he's complaining that there are licensed RPG's...but nobody is licensing the RPG's IPs to do other things with (like the Forgotten Realms books, and the D&D movie), therefore the industry is dying and becoming nothing more then Hollywoods/TV's bitch and is coming up with no ideas of its own.

Robot Master

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Re: Licensed RPGs are the devil
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2011, 09:01:07 AM »
We've got a family friend that's in the low budget movie industry and we've had tons of conversations about "why won't they make this?" or "why doesn't that get made" and every single damn time Darrin's reply is that major movie labels don't take chances on the audiences because there's too much money involved. I think for SOME of those RPG releases it might have been the same issue.

Some of those really creative RPGs that came out in the last five years, like Eclipse Phase, were products that really sold themselves because they were just so interesting, had good systems, and were filled with all-around badassery.

However, I bet the costs to obtain the IP for Serenity, Battlestar Galactica, Dresden, etc weren't so expensive and these IPs already had a built in audience. So I agree with the writer that the licensed products probably do have a honey pot factor, but I don't agree that it's a sign of the declining gaming population. I also think that he should remove some of those titles from the list. The Star Wars RPG isn't some "license" like the others. That RPG has been around for 25+ years and despite the fact that it changes hands, it's a tentpole game in a lot of gaming groups(like mine). DC Heroes also is a bit different. Mutants and Masterminds had people on the boards making DC/Marvel character writups for use in game for years and then DC apparently got interested in the gaming books and put together a deal with M&M to put out DC books. That's pretty badass.

I think this guy is probably some game developer (I’ve worked in the gaming industry, in one way or another, for nearly twenty years now.) who's blaming licensed books for part of the reason that he isn't receiving as steady work in the gaming industry as he used to.

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beej

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Re: Licensed RPGs are the devil
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2011, 08:21:15 PM »
The problem with un-liscensed rpgs is that like people have said, they're a crap shoot.   The only reason I pwn Paenthon and MaoCT is because Ross posted APs.   When I go to the hobby shop to browse for minis/D&D/SWSE sales/dice and whatnot, I pass over a ton of other books.  Why?  Because I dont want to drop twenty or thirdy bucks on books I'm not sure I'm going to use.   

If developers could come with deals with G4 and big podcasts to do AP demos, that could be really helpful.  Ross's initial AP demo of MaoCT with its developer sold me on the system.   From listening to Bearswarm I started reading the Dresden Files, which now has my interest peaked in its rpg. 

As for a wider audience?  Its going to take games that have gone the direction of 4e.  Shocking I know.  The new Neverwinter is supposed to be built in the vein of 4e.   If someone enjoys a 4e Neverwinter, then its easier to lure them to tabletop 4e and then you can go "You're right man, 4e is pretty fun.   Oh yeah check this out, its pretty sweet.  Its called Monster and Other Childish Things.  You get your own pet monster."
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clockworkjoe

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Re: Licensed RPGs are the devil
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2011, 02:16:53 PM »
holy shit take a look at this (terrible) essay

http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/2011/02/03/why-do-rpgs-suck/

Tadanori Oyama

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Re: Licensed RPGs are the devil
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2011, 03:40:05 PM »
The part that I'm hung up on is when he says people complain about big companies too much and then spends the second half of the essay dissing Wizards of the Coast. I'd comment on the blog but I don't think it'd accomplish anything.

clockworkjoe

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Re: Licensed RPGs are the devil
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2011, 08:07:38 PM »
look at this even worse essay

look at how bad it is

http://errantgame.blogspot.com/2011/02/why-do-rpgs-suck.html


beej

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Re: Licensed RPGs are the devil
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2011, 11:09:10 PM »
I've never heard of Malcom Shepperd, but apparently anyone who can write a flamer blog wants to give him a hummer.
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