Author Topic: Violence in gaming.  (Read 24351 times)

metalwhisper

  • Slayer of the Dread Gazebo
  • *
  • Posts: 48
    • View Profile
Re: Violence in gaming.
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2013, 02:21:01 PM »
Found this article interesting:
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2013/01/12/dont-blame-the-video-games/?hpt=hp_t2

Was kind of surprised to find an article on a news website that's actually not blaming games for everything.

edwardian_adventurer

  • Zombie Apocalypse Survivor
  • **
  • Posts: 75
    • View Profile
    • The Edwardian Adventuerer Blog
Re: Violence in gaming.
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2013, 05:23:36 PM »
I was listening to an episode of Fresh Air this week, and it seems that sales of certain types of guns have gone down over the years. One of the attributing factors for this is video games.

http://www.npr.org/2012/12/20/167694808/assault-style-weapons-in-the-civilian-market

It seems young people are more interested in games than shooting.

Teapot

  • I dream in graph paper lines
  • ****
  • Posts: 264
    • View Profile
Re: Violence in gaming.
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2013, 08:49:07 PM »
Compairing gun violence to China, Singapore and Japan is kind of lazy. I mean in the 1800s, the US had no problem with Samurai abusing their status either.

Plus there are attacks in China:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/12/14/china-knife-attack-school.html

Different causes and such though. I do remember when the pre-school I was teaching at got a new security guard. He was pretty cool, a good smoking buddy and I'd see him hanging around the classrooms while I was teaching because he wanted to pick up some English.

Setherick

  • Administrator
  • Cosmic Horror: 1d10/1d100 SAN loss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2583
  • Economies of Scale
    • View Profile
Re: Violence in gaming.
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2013, 08:09:51 PM »
OK, I'll seriously respond to this post when I have a free moment. I don't have one right now though, so you'll get the shortened, snarkier response right now.

Before video games it was violent TV. Before violent TV it was violent movies. Before violent movies it was dime novels. Before dime novels it was the theater (hell, it's always been the theater, those damn actors!). Before the theater it was literature that was not the Bible. Before it was literature that was not the Bible it was whatever religion wasn't sponsored by the state/king/emperor.

Are you sensing a pattern here?

Basically, what is deemed low culture is always blamed for the evils that befall a society even though that low culture is usually a better barometer of what actually goes on in "high culture" of the period. Dime novels of the 1850s,  for instance, also the period I primarily study, covered banking crises brought on by fraud, insurance manipulations, foreclosures, murder, prostitution, and - my personal favorite - fortunetellers. Did any of the "high culture" productions touch on these subjects? Rarely. Were these things a direct result of the moneyed classes? Oh absolutely.

Any time something gets singled out like video games, it's good to stop and think what video games do and why people want to criticize them. Violent video games are a perfect barometer for a society that has been at a state of war since 1914 and really before that. Since the end of the Cold War, the end of which was supposed to signal the end of state warfare, the US has fought two wars in the Middle East and participated in a number of other armed conflicts. These wars have benefited largely the moneyed classes - oil producers and weapons manufactures especially.

If people want to criticize video games, it is because people are making money off of holding a mirror in front of the American people. I'm not a religious person, but at times like these, I find 1 Corinthians 13: 12 instructive: "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."
"Something smart so that I can impress people I don't know." - Some Author I've Not Read

clockworkjoe

  • BUY MY BOOK
  • Administrator
  • Extreme XP CEO
  • *****
  • Posts: 6517
    • View Profile
    • BUY MY BOOK
Re: Violence in gaming.
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2013, 11:28:53 PM »
Those are some good points. Pretty much any attempt to control or modify culture isn't about bettering society as a whole - it's about benefiting a specific part, usually the status quo/upper classes what have you.

The war against piracy isn't about protecting artists, it's about solidifying the stranglehold large corporations have over artists - for example http://boingboing.net/2013/01/14/how-internet-copyright-laws-le.html

metalwhisper

  • Slayer of the Dread Gazebo
  • *
  • Posts: 48
    • View Profile
Re: Violence in gaming.
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2013, 03:26:51 PM »
Yes, I have to agree. Good points.

Also, Journ-O-LST-3: yes, the article was kind of lazy in that sense. The damn lies and statistics thing. They can be made to say whatever you want them to. Just posted it because in my experience its kind of rare, needle-in-a-haystack rare, to find any kind of article on a main stream news site saying that it's actually not the games fault, for whatever reason. As for the validity of the article's arguement based on the figures referred to, I have absolutely no idea. Personally I believe it is not the games' fault. But then, I'm a gamer, so I'm biased.

Clockworkjoe, I do agree that the "war on piracy" is probably benefiting large corporations, business, and so on over the individual artist. That being said, does piracy benefit those said artists? I can't say I agree with that completely. I mean, artists should be paid for their work and effort, right? Or at least compensated somehow.
For example, I have a pretty large number of rpg PDFs at this point. If I really wanted to, I probably could have downloaded them for free somewhere. People who can and do regularly would probably say that I'm a sucker. Maybe. But I feel strongly enough about it that I'd rather pay the artists and authors for their creative work, somehow.
Guess I'm getting off topic from my original post. But whatever. This is an interesting subject as well.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 03:43:43 PM by metalwhisper »

Teapot

  • I dream in graph paper lines
  • ****
  • Posts: 264
    • View Profile
Re: Violence in gaming.
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2013, 11:08:34 PM »
It's not lazy for the statistics, it's lazy because compairing attacks to japan, Singapore and China which are not gun places. The article I linked about the school attack in China isn't special, there have been a few over the last few years here. The roots and causes are largely directly class/anger related and mental illness may have played a part too.

If you want to look at things that make a better compairison, check out Switzerland where gun ownership is a thing and they have access to the same entertainment and first world stuff. Isarel is also a place where people have guns so you might want to look at that for a more accurate compairison, assuming you can ignore the other factors.

To keep up my theme from earlier, it's culture at the root. Which isn't really useful because "culture" is such a big thing that it means everything from video games to church services to PolySci 102 classes and the lingering effects of the Civil War.

Also to go back to my "NRA speaking stupid" the whole thing about a mental illness database is directly harmful in that it would encourage people to further hide/deny/avoid treatment for said illness. More or less, until society treats say depression as no different than a broken leg and removes the stigma associated we won't find much improvment.

To defend The Media here, the average reporter likely has four to six hours to scrawl together an article about violence and video games/culture/gun control. Then they have to write another article because half the office was fired to increase profits by doubling the workload of the survivors. You'd be much better off looking to special editions and magazines where the writers have longer to research and time to cross check what people say.

Someone to look at here might be Jackson Katz, http://www.jacksonkatz.com/ who is active as anti-sexist and anti-violence type stuff.

clockworkjoe

  • BUY MY BOOK
  • Administrator
  • Extreme XP CEO
  • *****
  • Posts: 6517
    • View Profile
    • BUY MY BOOK
Re: Violence in gaming.
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2013, 11:26:12 PM »
Most people pirate because it's convenient and offers a better product than the market - DRM free media you can use however you want. If you offer a better product then a lot of people will buy it rather than waste time and effort to pirate it. Look at Steam - they get selling PC games right - I can't remember the last PC game I've pirated because Steam offers such a better service that even though I could pirate a lot of games - I don't. There will always be some piracy and trying to stamp out a bunch of contrarian hackers that thrive on defying 'the man' is a waste of resources.

Artists are hurt more by gatekeeper corporations that deny access to the marketplace to most and then exploit the few they choose to be stars.

As for gun control in Switzerland and Israel - read this http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/mythbusting-israel-and-switzerland-are-not-gun-toting-utopias/


Teapot

  • I dream in graph paper lines
  • ****
  • Posts: 264
    • View Profile
Re: Violence in gaming.
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2013, 03:35:26 AM »
Sort of. What I'm talking about is if you're compairing instances of mass violence, availability of guns and a first world nation (which leaves out Serbia) when you look at almost every other country you find low gun ownership such as in Japan, China, Singapore and so on.

I'm playing this right back into my point about culture and glorification and blah blah blah.

From the article:
Quote
EK: Israel and Switzerland are both small, highly cohesive countries. So some say that the difference in gun crime shows that there’s something about American culture that’s leading to these atrocities. Do you buy that?

JR: Israel is not a peaceful society. If there were a lot of guns, it may be even more violent. Israeli schools are well known for having a lot of the kicking and punching type of violence. I don’t know that Switzerland has that reputation. But Israel does, and it seems that the lack of guns promotes the lack of firearm violence rather than there being some nascent tendency toward peacefulness and cohesion. That cohesion may or may not exist, but not having guns prevents guns from being used in violence. People do still commit homicide and suicide but they do it with less lethal means. The most common form of suicide in Israel is strangulation, which is striking, because it’s not that common elsewhere.

Here's a point from the article, it's interesting in that it does answer the question but it does not as well. She stops short of saying it's an American cultural thing but only dodges into saying there is indeed an element of violence in Israeli culture while she didn't say anything about Switzerland.

crash2455

  • I walk between the rain drops, tommy gun and katana in hand
  • *****
  • Posts: 766
  • #1 Brovine
    • View Profile
    • The Drunk and the Ugly
Re: Violence in gaming.
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2013, 05:20:06 PM »
Relevant:

http://www.giantbomb.com/news/obama-instructs-cdc-to-research-links-between-violent-media-and-real-life-violence/4521/

The article sways it a little bit, as this portion is one of many steps regarding gun violence and attempting to end it.  The whole document can be viewed here.

Ezechiel357

  • Zombie Apocalypse Survivor
  • **
  • Posts: 59
    • View Profile
Re: Violence in gaming.
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2013, 08:28:54 AM »
My only qualification to jump on this topic is to be Swiss. I am not a psychologist or a fireman expert, but I do follow news in what is happening in my country.

First, regarding firearm.
The military service is compulsory for every male citizen and you have to do your "class" for about five months around the age of 20. Once done, you are responsible for your gun that you take home, with a sealed can of bullets (20, enough for one charger).
The rifle is a military weapon, capable of short burst or full auto (I gave this details because I read in newspaper that there is currently heated debated about banning automatic gun).
You will be entrusted with the weapon until you reach 35. During this time, every year you go for a 3-4 weeks military training, and you have to attend on a separate occasion a test shooting (about an hour). At each military training, you have to show your sealed can of bullet to prove that you did not use it.
So unless you have been found unfit for millitary duty, or you requested to do civil service instead of military service, you will have a rifle at home, with a can of bullet ready to use (if you don't care of the consequence).
When I turned 35 (when you are removed from the army list), I was asked if I wanted to own my weapon (which I refused instantly), but it is possible to own it. Your rifle will be modified not to be able to shoot full auto or 3 bullet burst and you will have to attend every year the shooting practice.
I do not know now, if you can still keep your gun after you turn 35 or if all rifles are kept in arsenals.

About once or twice a year on average, there is problem involving shooting (with or without killing, with or without military weapon) (out of 7 mio people to put in comparison with US population of 300 mio ?).

Having lived about a year in the US recently (California) I can make some comparisons.
Switzerland does not have a gun culture. Not at all. Yes, there is alot of guns amongst the population, but owing a gun is a responsability not a right. That being said, every year, there is in Switzerland the biggest shooting competition in the world with around 130'000 participants during a week end. It is a one-of-a-kind celebration, as there is no other "big" competition and amongst all my friends and colleagues none is remotely interested in guns (and they cover a large spread of the community).

However I remember that in the US, there is regular advertisement on TV, you can get gun in Walmarts and so on (which was baffling for a guy like me :-)  ). No judgement on my side, simply making a comparison between two countries where guns number are high, but where the takes on gun-ownership is very different.

Regarding the gun issue, there is currently also a heated discussion in Switzerland on gun control. Very recently, having national registry of gun has been rejected by the government, the responsibility will be left to the 26 cantons (equivalent of US states), which obviously makes it much less efficient. People (and government) are fully aware that a lot of weapons are in circulations, and it seems that a fair amount of ex-military rifles are sold/stolen/lost without their owner notifying the proper authority. Which is a concern, but everything takes a very long time to evolve in my little country (geological scale is more adequate to track change in Switzerland than human calendar  ;) ).

Flawless P

  • I walk between the rain drops, tommy gun and katana in hand
  • *****
  • Posts: 1024
    • View Profile
Re: Violence in gaming.
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2013, 01:28:03 PM »
This leads me to a random question about Video Games in Sweden. I have always been against Video Game Censorship of any kind. I mostly scoff at people who think that there is a connection between Violence and any kind of violent media.

I am just wondering if while you were here(I live in Sacramento California), you may have noticed a difference between what is available in Sweden vs. what you can find in The USA.

Edit: In the media that is. Video Games/Movies/TV ect.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 01:30:18 PM by Flawless P »
42.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
If you can't fix it with duck tape you haven't used enough.
I intend to live forever -- so far, so good.

Ezechiel357

  • Zombie Apocalypse Survivor
  • **
  • Posts: 59
    • View Profile
Re: Violence in gaming.
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2013, 07:39:07 AM »
Flawless P, are you talking to me, because if it is the case, I am Swiss from Switzerland, which is not the same than Sweden...
Both have small population, but that's about the only common point Swedes and Swiss have. And the two first letters of their country.

There is about 2'000 km (so roughly 1'200 miles) between our borders, so we are not exactly neighbours, we don't speak the same language, Switzerland does not have a coastline or oil fields, but we do have chocolate, watches and dubious bankers.

Teapot

  • I dream in graph paper lines
  • ****
  • Posts: 264
    • View Profile
Re: Violence in gaming.
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2013, 12:06:45 PM »
Is it true that the Swiss have a secret language?

Flawless P

  • I walk between the rain drops, tommy gun and katana in hand
  • *****
  • Posts: 1024
    • View Profile
Re: Violence in gaming.
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2013, 12:18:28 PM »
Flawless P, are you talking to me, because if it is the case, I am Swiss from Switzerland, which is not the same than Sweden...
Both have small population, but that's about the only common point Swedes and Swiss have. And the two first letters of their country.

There is about 2'000 km (so roughly 1'200 miles) between our borders, so we are not exactly neighbours, we don't speak the same language, Switzerland does not have a coastline or oil fields, but we do have chocolate, watches and dubious bankers.

Geography fail on my part... I don't know why I made that mistake because I swear I knew that!

I'm sorry, clearly I am not as smart, as I think I am sometimes.

I feel so silly right now... I must've just gone straight for the first country starting with S I could think of.

Yes though the question was directed at you about your actual home country of Switzerland.

*Facepalm*
42.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
If you can't fix it with duck tape you haven't used enough.
I intend to live forever -- so far, so good.