Author Topic: The RPPR AP podcast site is now up  (Read 490085 times)

Setherick

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Re: The RPPR AP podcast site is now up
« Reply #450 on: December 08, 2010, 11:02:46 PM »
It's amazing how quickly people will cast aside thier goals and beliefs when somebody acts polite and pretends to empathize with them. Sarkis really shows the evil that can lurk in seemingly moderate, centrist viewpoints.

Sarkis isn't evil. In fact, his policies would probably have been much better for the colony than those of the players.
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iceemaker

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Re: The RPPR AP podcast site is now up
« Reply #451 on: December 08, 2010, 11:14:41 PM »
Well, after the Crown exterminated those who supported the Water Barons and re-established a firm choke-hold on the colonies. Then, yeah, I suppose from a purely utilitarian standpoint, re-integrating with the kingdom would have been better for the colonies.

Sarkis himself isn't evil, but the fact that he willingly supports a corrupt, inept regime (which the Cortez debacle conclusively demonstrated of the Crown) does little to help his cause.
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Setherick

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Re: The RPPR AP podcast site is now up
« Reply #452 on: December 08, 2010, 11:52:04 PM »
Well, after the Crown exterminated those who supported the Water Barons and re-established a firm choke-hold on the colonies. Then, yeah, I suppose from a purely utilitarian standpoint, re-integrating with the kingdom would have been better for the colonies.

His philosophy isn't actually a utilitarian one or, rather, it is but not in a post-Locke, post-JS Mill understanding of utilitarianism. Sarkis actually practices pure altruism, but the price that he expects for his altruism is devotion to the causes that he believes in. For instance, by providing loans with no interest for the good of building the colony, Sarkis seeks to benefit all parties in the transaction, even if he himself profits from it. He actually proposes an alternative society, and extremely just society, to the Hobbesian-liberal and pseudo-capitalistic society proposed by the players. The question becomes what lengths will an individual go to for a fair and just society? And is such a society preferable to the reality the players would impose on the colony? Would an individual genuflect to petty tyranny that benefited themselves and others or would an individual attempt to assert his or her own personal "rights and freedoms" in imposing their own tyrannical rule over others. As Sarkis explains to the players in the meeting, the choice they have given the colonists is actually a false choice that could be more tyrannical than the rule of the king, particularly a rule that could be mitigated through Sarkis and his advisors.
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iceemaker

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Re: The RPPR AP podcast site is now up
« Reply #453 on: December 09, 2010, 12:57:49 AM »
Well, it's certainly no secret that the players had not developed much of a post-revolution plan beyond free elections. I personally have no idea what they desire except self-determination, free from the Crown's influence. But the whole "PCs imposing thier tyrannical views on the colonists" arguement is moot - doesn't the Crown impose its "tyrannical views" on citizens the moment they are born? Sure, the PCs basically took the fate of the colonies into thier hands and single-handedly determined its future direction. That's not really up for debate. But I doubt one can objectively state that the Crown's claim to Divine Right is any more "legitimate" or "moral" than the PC's decision to begin a revolution.

I don't have a firm backing in philosophy, but practicing charity and expecting payment in return, whether in the form of future favors or devotion or influence or whatever, does not really fit any definition of "charity" or "altruism" I have seen. These seem to be purely self-motivated gestures on Sarkis' part to increase his sphere of influence and soften his public image.

The obvious ineptitude of the Old World has yet to be addressed. Allowing a crazed, would-be tyrant and ex-Pelorite to ally himself with aberrant monstrosities and demons and trounce through thier colonies roughshod is, quite frankly, inexcusable. If the Crown cannot prevent that, or at least offer more than nominal assistance to its colonies, then the Old World is one good gnoll or giant invasion away from collapsing in on itself.
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Salkovich

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Re: The RPPR AP podcast site is now up
« Reply #454 on: December 09, 2010, 02:22:49 AM »
Well, it's certainly no secret that the players had not developed much of a post-revolution plan beyond free elections. I personally have no idea what they desire except self-determination, free from the Crown's influence. But the whole "PCs imposing thier tyrannical views on the colonists" arguement is moot - doesn't the Crown impose its "tyrannical views" on citizens the moment they are born? Sure, the PCs basically took the fate of the colonies into thier hands and single-handedly determined its future direction. That's not really up for debate. But I doubt one can objectively state that the Crown's claim to Divine Right is any more "legitimate" or "moral" than the PC's decision to begin a revolution.

While this is all true, I definitely found myself coming down against the group during this episode. I was sitting there amazed at the lack of action on anyone's part. I wonder how different that would have gone if Locke was present. I bet he would have sided with Lowcrag and SOMETHING would have been done. 
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Setherick

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Re: The RPPR AP podcast site is now up
« Reply #455 on: December 09, 2010, 08:49:46 AM »
I don't have a firm backing in philosophy, but practicing charity and expecting payment in return, whether in the form of future favors or devotion or influence or whatever, does not really fit any definition of "charity" or "altruism" I have seen. These seem to be purely self-motivated gestures on Sarkis' part to increase his sphere of influence and soften his public image.

It's naive to assume that there is any form of charity or altruism that isn't self-serving.

In a liberal, capitalistic society, charity serves to redirect questions on how people accumulate so much wealth in the first place. George Soros, for instance, can give a one hundred million dollars to a charity that supports a third world peoples and people applaud it without bothering to learn that Soros originally made the one hundred million dollars off the very same people in the third world country. (And, in reality, Soros' microloans program is really more insidious than that but he's been hailed as altruistic because of it.)

The alternative version of society that Sarkis' envisions was one that didn't work on usury or monopolistic control of goods and services, including legal services. As such, his vision for the colony was close to Tom's initial vision of the colony just Sarkis has the cult of personality and sphere of influence to bring about such a vision.

The only really thing that set Sarkis and the players apart at the meeting was the players were operating on a firm, if unfounded, narcissism that they were the only ones that could stop Thrasdun (player logic). Also, I was quite disheartened at the players' utter disregard for the population of the colony whom they claimed to be liberating, but were instead endangering and impoverishing. While we might celebrate a player victory, would Lowcrag really be the best leader for the colony's people, especially when he has already claimed that the ideal society operates only on strength and violence?

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clockworkjoe

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Re: The RPPR AP podcast site is now up
« Reply #456 on: December 10, 2010, 04:10:40 PM »
gonna finish andrew's fortune tonight

Tadanori Oyama

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Re: The RPPR AP podcast site is now up
« Reply #457 on: December 10, 2010, 05:32:45 PM »
gonna finish andrew's fortune tonight

The dirty world game? Sweet.

Salkovich

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Re: The RPPR AP podcast site is now up
« Reply #458 on: December 10, 2010, 06:58:58 PM »
gonna finish andrew's fortune tonight

Yeah, I'm more than ok with this.

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clockworkjoe

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Re: The RPPR AP podcast site is now up
« Reply #459 on: December 11, 2010, 12:45:55 AM »
5 hour epic noir action tonight

shit got so real

you don't even know

Salkovich

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Re: The RPPR AP podcast site is now up
« Reply #460 on: December 11, 2010, 12:49:09 AM »
5 hour epic noir action tonight

shit got so real

you don't even know

post it! Let us know!
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clockworkjoe

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Tadanori Oyama

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Re: The RPPR AP podcast site is now up
« Reply #462 on: December 11, 2010, 02:06:35 AM »
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=585089&id=122939125563

Having met some of you in the past I can actually identify some people but I can't see Aaron. Is he the guy who never faces the camera? I'm assuming the dude with glasses and a green shirt is Caleb.

Also I think he's cool that Ross appears to be gaming in his socks.

Salkovich

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Re: The RPPR AP podcast site is now up
« Reply #463 on: December 11, 2010, 02:15:29 AM »
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=585089&id=122939125563

Having met some of you in the past I can actually identify some people but I can't see Aaron. Is he the guy who never faces the camera? I'm assuming the dude with glasses and a green shirt is Caleb.

Also I think he's cool that Ross appears to be gaming in his socks.

Yeah I just assumed that was Aaron in the foreground.
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Arje

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Re: The RPPR AP podcast site is now up
« Reply #464 on: December 11, 2010, 02:48:21 AM »
ಠ_ಠ


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