A tad bit of help with my Campaign please.

[dragonshaos]

Well, continuing from http://slangdesign.com/rppr/bbpress/topic.php?id=97 for my campaign I had semi-planned out, now that I have a rulebook and Ive read over them Ive decided to start actually writing down my 'script' of sorts for the first session.  But there's a problem...

To start the players are going to be trapped within the dungeon they helped build.  I think to keep the element of surprise, the players will be the 'fresh' slaves' recently captured.  This way its still a new dungeon.  So as stated before something will happen where the evil boss (I'm just going to call him that for now) is forced to leave, leaving the players and the rest of the slave community locked inside.

Now here is where Ive come to a tab bit of a problem.  I have just a few ideas I could use for this session.  And depending on the idea I use will pretty much determine how...crazy (?) the evil boss guy is.  Oh, and the dungeon has multiple floors, the deeper you go the harder it gets, so there's a lot of slaves the players will be with.

1.  I could make the dungeon a series of trials [Each trial having the proper NPC to help them through it,(1 representing each guild, so about 4) but not do it for them.] in which there's the trap trial, the riddle trial, the monster trial and I thought of throwing in the 2 statues, one that only tells the truth and one that only tells lies, to mix it up.  Each trial has a very simple name (Like Trial of Ideas for the riddles) and after they get through them they are given the choice to keep going down or leave through some means.  This gives me the option to keep the dungeon active for later adventuring, giving the new Trials more meaningful names (like Trial of Epiphany for a later Riddle).  This would in turn make the Evil Boss someone who can show pity, showing that he may just be following orders from a higher being.  I'm toying with this idea but it represent the closest to my original.

2.  Since the players are slaves and they are trying to save not only themselves but the community, I thought Id have them gamble the lives of them.  A large stone tablet will tell them to divide the slaves, about 100 of them, into 3 rooms (again, each representing a trial) and have them decide whether or not to let the slaves attempt the trial, or have them 'pass'.  I'm toying with the idea to make this a secret vote or  saying it in the open (or both).  By passing, the players will unknowingly the first time kill all the slaves.  I have 3 means by which this happens for the first 3 trials.  Traps, the slaves are to simply get trhough a passageway alive, filled mainly with spear traps.  If the players pass, the slaves in their 'waiting room' are impaled upon spears, shot down by arrow turrets, and burned in flaming oil.  Riddle, the slaves are to answer a simple riddle.  Pass, and the slaves are suddenly entering a room with zombies, being eaten alive and having their brains torn from their heads.  Monster, they fight a few skeletons.  Pass, rats rains down from the walls and floors up the the waist of the slaves as they are quickly eaten alive by millions of rats.
  The fourth trial, however, will be for the players only.  Ill throw the Truth/Lies statues at them for this.
In this way they players are somewhat determining how many slaves they could start with in their town building.
The way the players are picked is since there are 5, I will have 7 pedestals that need to be occupied.  Each representing one of 7 sins (I like incorporating them).  2 NPC's will fill up 2, these 2 will be semi-important is determining the vote for the players and slaves.  The players can choose not to do the voting and instead attempt the trial (in which case they will never come up as pass, in fact only the 7 who are the 'Sinners' will know that someone had a hand in choosing.
I think I'm going to go with this idea because I can incorporate more time in the building and adventuring before the Evil Boss comes back.  The Evil Boss himself could be a gambling man, using the dungeons he's built as tests against the slaves, earn their freedom at a price.  Believing the players will choose pass each time, he believes they wont survive in the wilderness, and thus wont come back for a time.

These are just 2 ideas I've thought over the most.  I want something interesting and a way to introduce a wide array of challenges so my players will learn the game with me.  Sorry for making this so long...If you read all of it I think you for your time and hope you can suggest any kind of ideas.  Thank you.

[Maze]

Well, reading this and the original thread, I see a few possible problems:

So far it seems more like a puzzle-based video game plot than a D&D plot. The whole sacrificing slaves by the hundreds that are in room if the players pass instead of solving the puzzle is kind of non-nonsensical since... well, what's the whole point of building that? They would probably be starved by the time any adventurer comes along anyway.

If the campaign is going to be based around the dungeon, not only are you going to want to map it out, but you might also want to consider why it's built. I understand the evil boss is crazy and all but dungeons are usually built to protect something. If it's just a trap for the slaves, then there's no reason anyone in its right mind would want to go to the lower levels.

I'm not saying your puzzle idea is bad, it's just that if it's badly implemented the game won't last very long. Here's what I suggest:

1) Make sure you know what the players want by talking to them. If they're more puzzle oriented, then puzzles it is. If they want to fight monsters, puzzles will bore them, make the dungeon into some sort of monster zoo. If they're not into politics and you give them the reins to building a new society, they won't do anything with them.

2) Make the other slaves actually act like humans, not one-liner guys who stand in a corner and give them their single line of dialogue about how pressing X on a crystal to save their game. You probably know that, but some GMs don't know how to do proper NPCs. They have to do what real people would do in their situation, not just be like lemmings walking off cliffs. Why save them if they're mindless non-sentient pieces of meat? The players might still help them because of their "alignment", but as the example of the frog people in Ross' new world campaign, it'll be much more interesting if there's an actual investment in their well-being.

3) Don't over plan. Players will do what you didn't expect anyway. If the players didn't find a way around a third of the things you had in store for them, you're doing something wrong.


That's basically it. Personally, I would make the players start as slaves building a fairly huge labyrinth with big chambers containing tricks and oddities when the entrance collapses. The players would be stuck inside having to gather and organize the other slaves to dig their way out. Each session, they would head out to look for magical items the mage has kept in separate chambers that might help them get out. They know that something huge is in the treasure chamber at the bottom but as the traps are insane, they wouldn't risk it yet. When they finally get out, a group of bloodthirsty mercenaries would try to raid the dungeon so they have to fend them off. They can either start setting up new traps or head for the bottom of the dungeon to find the item which will give them the edge they need. But that's my kind of games.

[dragonshaos]

That's an interesting idea indeed.  Im liking the idea that its a huge labyrinth and the entrance collapses (Was it an accident...?  Interesting...) and then the players work with the slaves.  I can only get so much down typed when so many ideas go through my head.  I talked with a GM of mine from college and he said one of the major flaws was the players not starting with items, so including them going about getting the items they were creating a dungeon to protect is interesting.  But the overall idea, whether the players get it or not, is for the main bad guy to come back with evil intentions.

The main point about players starting in this dungeon is that its going to be a way for them to learn how the mechanics of the DnD game work.  The puzzles are mainly them learning how they can deal with future traps and puzzles and the encounters will give them a good idea as their role in the group.  This way the dungeon will be the introduction to the rest of the campaign, the town building being the part where it gets much more sand box, choosing where and what to do next.

NPC's I was going to role play them out, having them shout to the players what to do (both good and bad advice) having the players end up working together with a few key NPC's who would in a sense represent the overall mood/ideas/fears of the slaves, but not do the tasks themselves.  in fact the more helpul of the unique NPC's i plan for them to die, by thinking the traps are clear or the encounter over.  Mindless NPC's would add nothing, Im having them be fearful for their lives now that they believe they are trapped within their new tomb, wanting desperately to get out, needing some kind of...group, of heroes...to save them.  I know almost 100% one of my players is playing the heroic 'Lets save everyone cause I'm an awesome bad ass' character (He's a Dragonborn paladin haha).  So immediately people will start asking them to go forward to do the 'trials', more or less making the players the main characters they look up to for help and guidance, getting more scared and angry at the heroes if they falter.

So...slaves, players, labyrinth, entrance destroyed, gather slaves, go though getting items through trials, umm...oh!, Keys with the items that lead the an Exit door, AND to the lower dungeon areas, uhh...and then it brings them to the outside.  The political aspect is something that if they pay attention to how the NPC's act, and how the village is growing they could see how their actions affect it, otherwise to them it'll be the simple "Oh noes!  Gnolls is attacking!  Kill em!  Argle Bargle!" which I know my players are fine with too.

I realize my players are very open to everything and will try hard, if not attempt to give everything a try.  Unless I'm missing something I guess all that's really left is to figure out a reason for why the evil boss guy would leave, and why he would come back.

[clockworkjoe]

Hell, why we don't we just figure out a backstory that you can use in the game. A story that makes sense and will allow you to figure out how the dungeon reacts to the actions of the players. We'll start with some questions:

1. Why was the dungeon built?

2. Who built the dungeon?

3. Why did he leave?

4. Where did the slaves come from?

[dragonshaos]

Ah yes...its funny, I'm in a Game Design class and the basics is to ask questions...which I forgot to do in my case     It's embarrassing...

Ok, let's see here...

1. and 2.
Why was the Dungeon built...hmm...Alright, how about it's being built over an older dungeon in which the upper floors needed remodeling due to all the adventurers coming in looking for treasure over the course of generation after generation (Sounds as a joke, but if someone goes to all the trouble to make a dungeon, and they're still alive, they want it to at least look nice  ).  The original dungeon itself was built within the now abandoned lair of an Elder Green Dragon.  The Dragon itself has not been seen for generations.  However, the main boss, lets call him Bob now, is the heir to a massive fortune he inherits from generations pasts.  The treasure he has is actually what still remains from the stash the Dragon left behind.  So Bob is 'refurnishing' the dungeon with new traps and putting in new enemies.  In a sense he's 'refreshing' the dungeon.  He does this not for adventurers, but because the items he has locked away beneath the upper floors are too valuable to be left anywhere else.  The top floor or two are simply there to make it seem too easy and thus turn away more determined adventurers (that's Bob's thought anyway).

So, the dungeon is being built to keep the secret treasure beneath it safe from adventurers.  Simple enough for now.  And as a quick note, they refresh the dungeon about 2-3 times a generation due to the severe lack of adventurers, we are talking about a valley in the middle of nowhere.

Now for 3...Why would a man who is using his fortune to uphold his family tradition of keeping the dungeon safe leave his slaves for long enough time for the slaves to not only escape but use the resources left behind to create a small village...I've got it!  It changes the story just a tad bit, but it works...
Alright, so Bob is the evil guy calling the shots at the dungeon sight...But, after the entrance of the cave collapses he find himself trapped inside the dungeon too!  His cohorts on the outside know he's trapped, or worse, dead (and when the slaves find out he's inside the dungeon, he may well be dead).  So, when Bob's cohorts leave, they're returning the Bob's father...the man who gave Bob the task of 'refreshing' the dungeon!  So when Bob's father hears the news (he lives really far away.  Like, really far) he panics for his sons life and orders a large portion of his guards to save his son.  And thus an oncoming army that the players will find out about later.

Whew...tough work...alright...now for 4.

The slaves themselves come from small villages and towns from across the land, a few taken here and there, secretly so as not to arouse suspicion.  Most of the slaves are just that though, slaves.  Bought and traded, eventually ending up here.  This will give the players the main community of their village, people who want to stay and settler, out of harms way of the whip and beatings.  But the ones who came from families and had lives want to return to them.  This way after the town has grown enough supplies and can live on it's own peacefully for now in the valley, these npc's that had lives will gather what they can, and leave.  This will be when the players themselves leave the village, after all their work is done and they are not needed.  The village community will encourage that the players go out and make a name for themselves in other towns as they did in this one.

The majority of encounter in the top floor of the dungeon can be the guards ordered to watch the slaves.  As the slaves revolt after they realize what's happening, the guards will try and barricade themselves in rooms, using the few archers inside to keep the slaves away.  This is one way the players will then be able to get weapons and armor.  After they've settled with most of the guards, they could try their hand at a few 'prize' rooms that have some treasure and maybe one lesser magic object to make them happy.

So that's back story, reasons for dungeon, reasons for army coming, where slaves came from, and item issues.

I want to thank you guys so very much for helping me with this.  I know I seem a bit rash and really annoying, but it's something I'm really excited about and I want to get this right as best I can.  It means a lot that I can get help from experienced people like you guys and it means a lot, criticism on my work and all.

[Maze]

I've got a question and an idea.

If the dungeons doesn't get many adventurers, wouldn't the "redesign" comes across as useless since it already successfully guards the treasures. Actually, the only work needed besides rebuilding the top floor would be to re-arm the traps. The PCs should probably have stashes of arrows and darts (possibly posion) and a few other gimmicks they can use for weapons, until they steal the guard's weapons.

My idea is this: when the cave collapses, it buries Bob alive. The players, starting at the collapses, will have to go around and talk order into the slaves and get the wounded brought to some room where they can be healed (some slaves might be clerics). Make them roll for perception or something, at early enough in the game, make them rescue a confused and injured man with battered robe. As he thanks them, make something else happen to draw them away from the guy. He's, of course, Bob and in such a bad state that no one recognize him as such, most slave only knows that he wears red robes or something. Seeing his guards then and himself being trapped, he passes himself as a low level mage or something.

Whether you give more hints or not that he's Bob doesn't really matter, if they kill him or something happens to him, they'll still have an army to face when they try to get out. If he has a change of heart, that could be something interesting to explore in a roleplaying game.

[dragonshaos]

Hmm...that is interesting...

But yes mainly what the slaves will be there to do is such things as remove skeletons or put them in proper places that look scary, re-arm traps, put back any monsters that live long enough since most died, and sweeping up the passageways.  Simple things really.  Ill have those tedious jobs be the players for a few minutes while explaining how the more veteran slaves are actually rebuilding some collapsed passageways, that way there's reasons for pickaxes, shovels and the like for weapons.

The thought of Bob possibly having a change in heart crossed my mind.  However I know there's a player who could see through that and possibly kill him on sight, claiming that Bob has tortured him so much that he would recognize him anywhere (metagamer...).  Hmm, Ill have Bob try a Diplomacy check as a way for me to gauge how he acts when he encounters them, and a quick Bluff check as he tries to pass himself as a lowly mage (which the players would like as help when fighting the archers).

So yes, there's a way I can incorporate that into this.  Maybe Bob has temporary amnesia and really believes he may be a slave.

[Maze]

You're practically god. Fuck metagamers. Why would Bob torture slaves himself, it's a lowly job for henchmen.

You know, sometimes players argue against your decision without wanting to be dick, just lacking the understanding of the situation. I'm guilty of it too, when a GM doesn't allow me to do something I think I would be able to. You just have to tell them: "Look, that's the way it is, I can compromise so and so, but I can't let this and that." If they argue on, just tell them they're being a "dick", it's interesting how people knock it out when they realize that.

As for the rolls, it's really up to you. I don't know how much experience you have with GMing but you should often roll dices behind the screen so they don't know when you're making checks or not. If succeeding that roll will make deprive them from an interesting party of the story, why let them roll at all? At the same time, if there's an important thing they should be noticing to go on in the quest such as a hidden door, why let them fail at that roll and stall the game?

Then again, that's just my style of play and GMing, I like to keep the focus on the story and the action rather than the rules.

[dragonshaos]

Roll wise, I use a little screen and will roll while having a conversation with a player in game.  Sometimes I roll, look at the result and laugh to myself or swear under my breath.  and these rolls will mean nothing, just there to throw players off.  Ive talked again to some other GM friends of mine and they say to let Bob live and have the players do something about him, whether it be befriending him or killing him in the end.

I have enough experience to know that if the players need or should notice something, Ill just let them notice it or have them roll and whatever comes up it passes (if not Ill have them notice something that makes them notice it) that way I keep the story moving.  The only time Ive had to stop the story is due to either forces outside my power (people outside the game interrupting for instance) and if a player questions a rule or effect then we briefly pause the game (at a point where stopping briefly would be acceptable).

But yeah...I think I'm going to start mapping out the dungeon and looking over encounters.  Hopefully this will turn out well.

[Maze]

Yeah, take notes a let us know. I'd like to know how it rolls out. (No pun intended... well maybe a little now, since I could change it but I won't because it sounds so witty... okay I'll shut up.)

[dragonshaos]

OK, so here's what ive managed to get done for the first session.  Just the dungeon, im not going to get into the story again.

The dungeon is a fairly small maze with some of the dead ends of the maze blocked off with doors and in the middle a room with doors leading from one side to the other.  On the right hand side of the maze I have small rooms with Decrepit Skeletons lvl 1 (lowest encounter x4, highest x8 skeletons).  In the center room is where the slaves will have a makeshift hospital for the wounded with a (unique character) Cleric trying to tend to their wounds.  The Left side of the maze has a few traps linked together.  I have two crossbow turrets set to the end of a hallway, after the players set off the trap (which is a scripted effect set off my a slave) the players will need to hid behind a few walls, which have Spear Gauntlets places sparingly.  Most of the dead end room have the guards inside trying to hold off the slaves.  These encounter comprise of some Human Guards lvl 3, [trained] Gray Wolves lvl 2, and the occasional Human Mage lvl 4.  throughout the maze there are dozens of Human Rabble lvl 1 (1hp) who act as both slaves and very very weak guards.  Essentially the slaves and weak guards fight it out while the players fight the more dangerous foes.  if the players want they can help the slaves and increase the chance of them living (which helps alot in the long run, but there's a good amount of slaves who survive no matter what).

At the end of the maze I have a custom Elite Human Berserker lvl 4 which the weapon (i made) Slavemaster Bane's Whip (which has a +2 Resounding enchant).  After he is defeated some role playing goes on and it will be decided that the still living slaves will make a village.  And thus should be the end of session one.

I'm still making a few unique characters who to start just have some helpful advice for players, if they survive the maze I have nothing really planned.  I may have them be something like the town healer, trader, farmer etc.

There are a few rooms I have planned to contain minor magic weapons/armor, Slavemaster Bane's axe being one from an encounter.  I'm thinking of adding a Dagger with Duelist enchant for a combat encounter against the room with most skeletons, a Quarterstaff of magic +1 for answering a riddle, a Magic Holy Symbol of Melora (used later) from a dying paladin/cleric, and something else I haven't decided.

Input/ Ideas/ Information all helpful.

[clockworkjoe]

Eh, I wouldn't assume what the resolution is going to be. Some of the slaves are going to want to go back to their old lives no matter what - they have families and friends back home. Furthermore, allow some space for the players to come up with alternate solutions. They should at least be able to persuade some of the guards to join with the slaves, as the slaves have greater numbers or convince the guards the repent their evil ways or something like that. Do your players enjoy dungeon crawls with mazes? Mine sure don't. 

[dragonshaos]

The slaves themselves come from small villages and towns from across the land, a few taken here and there, secretly so as not to arouse suspicion.  Most of the slaves are just that though, slaves.  Bought and traded, eventually ending up here.  This will give the players the main community of their village, people who want to stay and settle out of harms way of the whip and beatings.  But the ones who came from families and had lives want to return to them.  This way after the town has grown enough supplies and can live on it's own peacefully for now in the valley, these npc's that had lives will gather what they can, and leave.  This will be when the players themselves leave the village, after all their work is done and they are not needed.  The village community will encourage that the players go out and make a name for themselves in other towns as they did in this one.

This takes care of the villagers and families as stated earlier.

I'm using the maze layout now in hopes that if it works out great, if not, I have another entire dungeon layout using a random dungeon generator I can use for the floors below.  In future games I plan to use more structured dungeons bu for now the Maze seemed fun.

I can see guards joining in with the slaves.  Ill have a unique Npc try to get the players to talk to a room barricaded by guards.  If it works the guards will join up, if not, fighting will ensure.  The players can try this a few times.

But OK...I think Ive got this first session, as hectic as its been, just about done.  Just gotta make the unique Npcs and add the magics with the encounters and presto!   A headache!   

[dragonshaos]

Alright, I think I'm going to have my first session of my campaign this Saturday.  im nervous, feels like there's a lot not done but Saturday is a good day to have it.  If anyone has any last tips or ideas for it please let me know.  Thanks!

[clockworkjoe]

Alright, I think I'm going to have my first session of my campaign this Saturday.  im nervous, feels like there's a lot not done but Saturday is a good day to have it.  If anyone has any last tips or ideas for it please let me know.  Thanks!

If you mess A SINGLE RULE up, the entire game is RUINED FOREVER.