Author Topic: A New Superheroes Game  (Read 11403 times)

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A New Superheroes Game
« on: June 26, 2010, 11:32:12 PM »
      I'm running a game in  a couple of weeks in which the characters are playing villians.  The idea here is that the city will be a sandbox type environment and the overarching goal of the party is to become top dog in the criminal underworld.
     The problem that I'm running into is that one of the players has created a build that is ungodly.  He's making a character that has the phasing ability as well as the ability to cause instant death by touch.  This will lead to many a bullshit experience especially since these particular players have had many PvP moments. 
     The min/max king here can easily get around all of the security in the world and can down an ally or enemy with little resistance.  What is a good way to deal with this situtaion?  If it helps the system that I'm using is Savage Worlds.

Setherick

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Re: A New Superheroes Game
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2010, 11:44:09 PM »
Explain "death by touch". Does the character have to touch skin-to-skin or can it just be brushing up against someone.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2010, 11:45:40 PM by Setherick »
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Mckma

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Re: A New Superheroes Game
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2010, 11:53:39 PM »
Well, try talking to him.  I know that I've sometimes made characters that I thought would be fun characters to roll, but didn't work in game.  After a while we figured this out, and I modified my character to work better (most notably this was in a SW game where I basically had no combat abilities and little defense which forced the other PCs to do most of the fighting and defend me).  So if this person is "mature" and cares more about the game than the character, you can probably reach a compromise.  Otherwise, you can just make "phase-proof" material in high security areas, and "death-touch-proof" armor for certain characters.  If I know SW as well as think I do, his character doesn't really have much else he can do (since characters tend to be super balanced or super min-maxed), so this will really suck to come up against.  With this, basically what could happen is he might shine during day-to-day stuff (like robbing a bank say), but when it comes to a climactic battle or whatnot, he isn't going to be able to do anything and it gives the other characters control.

Anyway, that's just a quick couple of ideas...

Boyos

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Re: A New Superheroes Game
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2010, 12:02:06 AM »
Explain "death by touch". Does the character have to touch skin-to-skin or can it just be brushing up against someone.

With phasing It wouldent matter.

I would put him aginst a hero that has iron skin like colossus

clockworkjoe

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Re: A New Superheroes Game
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2010, 12:44:44 AM »
two routes to go here:

1. Figure out how to beat it via game mechanics - either phasing or death touch has to have to some kind of weakness that can be exploited - can you use death touch on a robot or vampire? I don't know Savage Worlds very well so that's up to you

2. Pose challenges that can't be solved by combat - rivals use bombs when they least expect it, develop gadgets to counter phasing ability, steal their money, trick them into fighting etc.

Tadanori Oyama

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Re: A New Superheroes Game
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2010, 02:01:27 AM »
If you know it'll lead to bad results than remind him of previous problems, point out that it doesn't work well for the game you've planned, and ask him to redesign the character.

Setherick

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Re: A New Superheroes Game
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2010, 09:40:20 AM »
If you know it'll lead to bad results than remind him of previous problems, point out that it doesn't work well for the game you've planned, and ask him to redesign the character.

Nah, the goal is to make the player feel like a moron for min-maxing in the first place instead of trying to think about how the character's skills would work in the game world.
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Re: A New Superheroes Game
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2010, 12:41:56 PM »
Thanks for the speedy replies. The instant death touch that he's using is a diseased touch that costs a bunch of points to get to the instant kill level. Everything else about the character is lacking. 

Quote
two routes to go here:

1. Figure out how to beat it via game mechanics - either phasing or death touch has to have to some kind of weakness that can be exploited - can you use death touch on a robot or vampire? I don't know Savage Worlds very well so that's up to you

2. Pose challenges that can't be solved by combat - rivals use bombs when they least expect it, develop gadgets to counter phasing ability, steal their money, trick them into fighting etc.

I didn't think of the robots and undead angle.  Also things that are not human would be immune, but I want to stay away from letting aliens and other human like races be immune because I don't want the player to feel like his character cannot do anything. 

Quote
Otherwise, you can just make "phase-proof" material in high security areas, and "death-touch-proof" armor for certain characters

I like the idea that some places would have certain areas phase proofed.  In a supers game that is understandable. 

I just hope that he doesn't figure out some more of the phasing tricks like carrying around a bag of nails and phasing it into someone and then letting go or foregoing the death touch and taking regeneration so as to phase into someone deal damage and phase out only to regenerate the lost wound back.

Setherick

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Re: A New Superheroes Game
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2010, 12:47:03 PM »
I just hope that he doesn't figure out some more of the phasing tricks like carrying around a bag of nails and phasing it into someone and then letting go or foregoing the death touch and taking regeneration so as to phase into someone deal damage and phase out only to regenerate the lost wound back.

House rule something like that out by saying that the nails become incorporeal and the only way that he can leave them inside someone is to phase shift while he's trying to place the nails, thus injuring himself as much as he would be his target.
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Joven

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Re: A New Superheroes Game
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2010, 01:37:28 PM »
For intangibility, since the trapping it lists are things like a mist, a ghost, a swarm of insects, he'd be intangible but not invisible.  So security personnel and devices could still detect him, and if he goes too far in, once he becomes corporeal he'd presumably be separated from the rest of the party, making it a lot tougher of a fight.  Also, maybe some situations will effect his spirit roll he has to make to phase in and out...
Plus remember that you can also choose attack forms that still work against intangible characters (depending on the trapping), (its in the Vulnerabilities section for intangibility)

As for the other one, I'm assuming its Infection, which still requires a successful touch attack, and a failed vigor roll.  
With extras it wouldn't really matter too much, since a successful enough attack would take them down anyway, its pretty much just an attack trapping at that point.  

The biggest difference is that a touch attack gets +2 on the fighting roll, so maybe either house-rule that away, or give selected villains +2 parry vs touch.

So, for wild cards that go up against him, either make them robots, etc, or people with high parry and a decent vigor, then at least he'd have to work with the party to get the jump on the guy and get the right attack bonuses, so he's not just mowing through everything by himself.  (What I'd do is basically have a recurring villain who tends to go against him, everyone needs an arch-nemesis, basically a guy who uses voodoo and can transfer effects to his minions or people he marked, so he runs in, death-touches the guy and it succeeds, he expects the guy to drop dead, but instead one of the nameless henches go down, guy turns around and smirks and stabs him with a voodoo needle or something [or while I'm stealing from One Piece already, have him turn into a giant straw voodoo doll too])

Also, dont forget the GM gets bennies too, so maybe save those for re-rolling vigor rolls for insta-death.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2010, 02:03:07 PM by Joven »

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Re: A New Superheroes Game
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2010, 01:29:27 PM »
Thanks for the input Joven.

The only potential problem that I've got is that with the suped up version of Infection the target gets a -2 to vigor rolls and the character in question reduced the cost of the power by making it always on. 

That means that all he has to do is phase and move to his target unphase with a spirit roll and phase again as a free action with a spirit roll.  This is in addition to his action because both phases are free actions. He can actually just move into them and do the oddest kill in the game.  He takes four wounds and the target takes four wounds and then makes a vigor roll at -2 (for the power) and the -3 from the three wound modifiers.  That's a vigor roll at -5 total without an attack roll at all for an auto kill. That also means that the target is making an incapacitation roll after the death check at a -3. 

Granted he's fucked for the game after that suicide bombing and now the mooks (if they can affect him) will probably kill him because his spirit roll to become intangible will be at a -3 for wound penalties and his vigor roll for Incapacitation will be at a -3, but it pretty much guarantees he's going to take out 1 wild card villian a game at little cost to him.  In addition to this, his bennies will let him reroll his vigor die for incapacitation multiple times.

Even with the wild die and bennies at a -5 even a character with a d12 vigor has a very low chance of success.  The way that I'm going to get around this is to use his own BS against him. It'll work once but chances are pretty good that either he or his group will go around spreading the gospel of his victory so that any intelligent villain with anything to lose will be ready.  Also I'm using a Doctor Doom type NPC so he's going to be a little pissed when he phases into a robot and the real villiain shows up with a damage field that he cannot phase through.

Boyos

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Re: A New Superheroes Game
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2010, 05:28:27 PM »
I just hope that he doesn't figure out some more of the phasing tricks like carrying around a bag of nails and phasing it into someone and then letting go or foregoing the death touch and taking regeneration so as to phase into someone deal damage and phase out only to regenerate the lost wound back.

House rule something like that out by saying that the nails become incorporeal and the only way that he can leave them inside someone is to phase shift while he's trying to place the nails, thus injuring himself as much as he would be his target.

I like that rule anyways.

Vega Baby

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Re: A New Superheroes Game
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2010, 07:20:20 PM »
Not to mention, if it's always on, whose to say he might not accidentally touch one of his allies or friends?   Hold that above his head if he insists on using the concept.

Joven

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Re: A New Superheroes Game
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2010, 07:46:38 PM »
Id probably require a touch attack to get inside the character in the first place, its not like they wouldn't try and dodge when they see a swarm of ghost bees or something coming at them.  Id also say that since NE got rid of the drawbacks for unarmed defender, it would be well within balance to say he doesnt get the +2 to his touch attack.

And / or let him have his little fun, once, then because he'd be wounded at that point, have reinforcements come in and murder the fuck out of him.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2010, 10:10:05 PM by Joven »