Inception

[Mckma]

Anyone else see it?  I really liked it and would like to see it again.  Not really a spoiler, but I'll put it in anyway since I think I enjoyed the movie more knowing as little as possible...

[spoiler]The fight scene in the tumbling hotel was so much cooler than I thought it was going to be.  I knew about it as a couple magazines kept talking about the rig they built for it, but with the camera work they did, it turned out to be absolutely awesome to watch.[/spoiler]

[beowuuf]

Yeah, saw it yesterday. I think at the start of it, it was hard to get in to simply because I was looking for all the rules and strings and so forth. I'm glad that there was no big twists during the main plotting - I spent alot of the film not quite comfortable in the world, scared he was going to shamalan it up. Instead, the central arc of the story was left nicely alone. I wish I'd known that, I think I would have settled back to enjoy the film more knowing that there wasn't going to be a big reveal. Instead [spoiler]you get a pleasantly ambiguous ending to try to workout at the very end instead, after the action has died down.[/spoiler]

As to the ending:
[spoiler]It seems to me there is a few ways it could be interpretted:
a) The entire film was always in his subconscious. Saigo was actually attempting to rescue him (or could even just be a projection too). If the series of kicks had worked, there might have been another bringing him really back to the real world. The fact his wife and Saigo both mention leaps of faith (Saigo twice) makes me think everything is Cobb's projection.

b) Once Saigo 'died' and was lost in his the lower levels, and Cobb missed the kick, there was no way back. All Cobb could do was 'rescue' Saigo by reminding him of the mission, and the fact it succeeded. In that way, both are able to then move on and enjoy their subconsciouses in a positive mindset. Though both have still, basically, died (I assume in some form of coma) in the real world.

c) Oh, I dunno, there are probably many![/spoiler]


I also like some of the smaller things. Like Cobb is probably lying when he say more positive emotions 'take', and it is simply if he's going to destroy a person with an idea, he wants to leave something positive behind that will let that person rebuild their life. And so it lets the resolution for Finley seem like a good one, when in reality they have just done something horrible to him for profit. Except, as we see, his father was probably horrible to him. Or perhaps not, and the reality they fashioned was actually what was there, which is why it worked out.

Definitely a film to see again, just to see if the there are some more clues for tyhe very end, and more importantly just to enjoy the film now I know the rug isn't pulled out from under during the film itself!

[Mckma]

Yeah, I definitely want to see it again, knowing what happens so I can follow aspects that you kind of figure out and determine "what's what" so to speak, because
[spoiler]There is the "top" to identify the top level (either Cobb's main dream that the movie is set in, or reality), so I figured I would watch for that and watch the jumps in and out.  There is also looking for contained "mazes," so that is another thing to identify levels under.[/spoiler]

Oh, and I was thinking about it, I was surprised at how many characters there were and how well they were developed/how much screen time they got...

[beowuuf]

Yeah, I did not read too much abotu the film going into it, so I had not realised initially it was based on the heist movie genre. Looking at it from that angle, the ensemble cast makes perfect sense. Definitely a good choice for many of the roles, they were very watchable and believeable even though there was not too much setting up of their characters.

I think the end setting was a mis-step, somehow. Lots of the white people on white background action just lost something..

Anyway, think I shall recommend people see it, and go with them to see their reactions

[clockworkjoe]

I saw it.

Carcosa is never going to be the same, I can tell you that much.

Great movie and very gameable.

[Boyos]

I saw it.

Carcosa is never going to be the same, I can tell you that much.

Great movie and very gameable.

Now this right here, makes me wanna see it. I wasent sure if I wanted to but now yes.

[rayner23]

Ross - I will agree that I felt like it was gameable, but I will not use the word "great" to define this film. If "great" you mean "pretentious wankfest" then you're right on the money.

[spoiler] I left the film last night slightly disappointed. While the action scenes were absolutely incredible, I felt like the movie was missing some heart. I didn't feel connected to any of the characters on an emotional level. The closest I felt to anyone in it was Cillian Murphy's character because they attempted some emotion for him. Here are a few of my problems with the film:

1) Science fiction has to be grounded in some sort of real emotion so the audience can connect with the characters in some form. While the motif of "this is my last job before I can retire" has been done before so the audience has some way in, I still felt as if the movie lacked emotion. All of the characters were written the same way and none of them stood out except for ethnic differences and accents. Also, Joseph Gordon Levitt.

2) Plot holes/vague explanations. I will have to be a little vague with characters since I don't remember any of their names with the exception of Cobb and Molly. Quasi-evil asian businessman wants to break up Cillian Murphy's company so he can take it over. What companies are they? Well . . . um . . . they are large corporations of important and influencial businesses. You know the kind. The ones that are on the stock market.

After Cobb is hired he has to assemble a perfect team to get into Cillian Murphey’s mind. Who does he go to get help? Why, he goes to his father, Michael Caine of course! Michael Caine is a prestigious professor of something and he has a smart student of some sort that can do things. What he is a professor of, who his student is and why she is so perfect as an “architect” aren’t really explained so much as they are vague concepts thrown at the viewer and we are made to understand that they work.
“I have a test for you. Draw a maze in two minutes that can’t be solved in less than one.”
“Why?”
“Because thems the rules.”

3) Logical inconsistencies. Okay, so this one comes with the territory of any sci-fi film, so I am willing to give it a small benefit of doubt, but it just seems ridiculous to me that seeing as how they have the ability to do anything in a dream, they wouldn’t be able to handle some guy’s subconscious. It was like they weren’t even trying!
“His mind has trained defenses of men shooting at us with machine guns!”
“Let’s use pistols on them!”
“Why don’t we just dream up another weapon that is far more powerful?”
“Because that requires a larger budget than this film is capable of. We’d have to have additional effects and explosions, etc.”

I suppose in the end, we could just right off the entire experience to simply “well, if you apply dream logic to the film, then the vagueness of Michael Caine’s roll, the logical inconsistencies and the lack of real emotion don’t matter because all of these things are understood in a similar way within dreams.” Still, I think it’s a little convenient for that excuse and I won’t buy it.

On a technical note: how about that musical score? Could we get any more generic than this film? You could have ripped the soundtrack out and put it in any other disaster film and it would have blended right in.

I hate to rip on this film so much because it was entertaining and if you liked it, that’s perfectly fine. I’m not so passionate about the movie that I will vehemently defend what I disliked about it, but I wasn’t a huge fan. Again, the effects were absolutely fantastic and I can’t say a negative word about them, but I can’t say that the story had me involved at all. Sorry, kids.

Go see Paprika. It’s animated and it feels more like a dream than this did. Also, it’s far more entertaining and it actually evokes an emotional response.
[/spoiler]

[beowuuf]

It's interesting, I have spotted a review somewhere that points out that all of Chrisopher Nolan's films seen to feature cold leading men with a burden of guilt, and usually a strained / lacking emotional core. Not sure if I agree r disagree, just not the first time I've heard that. Be interesting to look back at Batman, Memento the Protege or Insomnia (the last I hadn't realised was CN, and I didn't really enjopy that one).

Just as a thought on the dream logic thing:
[spoiler]The idea is the archetect provides the world, and the subject then simply populates the world with people (projectsions), themselve (the main projection) and relevant items (like secrets because there's a safe, etc). I think any attempt to be too over the top ruins the trap faster. For example, if the big train had smashed into the son's car, instead of Cobb's, I imagine that would have been game over right away. Luckily, the train happened where the son couldn't see.[/spoiler]

I must admit, I actually like a film that doesn't explicitly have to give you a five minute preample about 'this is the world and this is why it happened.' Is this some alternate present where giant companies use powerful tech? Or supposed to be the present and we don't know? What exactly is the tech? I liked that it was simply hand-waved. You get the way the world works, and you can move one quite quickly. I guess if you liek the film enough, there will be later interviews or DVD extras that might actually explain some of this.  Ever since Steven Speilberg attempted to rationalise with pseudo-science the ending of AI with the mother, I have developed a strong dislike for rationalising plot stuff just for the sake of it

[rayner23]

I have no problem with the wand-waving. I mean, it was a little half-assed with the whole, "this is military tech" thing, but it's a macguffin and that's all it needs to be. It's a means to move a plot, so no big deal.

My problem is the lack of explanation for the basic set up of the plot itself. I have no problem with the tech, but my problem lies within the characters themselves and their lack of personalities.

[beowuuf]

Yeah, I think that the film shows its 'heist film' origins with the secondary character development. Works for Oceans 11, but Inception set the bar higher for itself in that regard and didn't pay it off.

I'm probably in the minority, but I really liked 'Push'. That was also a heist film ultimately with many secondary characters, which mostly worked because of likeable actors, but there also were beats where most characters got to at least explain who they were in connection to the main bad organisation.

[BeyondSandrock]

[spoiler]3) Logical inconsistencies. Okay, so this one comes with the territory of any sci-fi film, so I am willing to give it a small benefit of doubt, but it just seems ridiculous to me that seeing as how they have the ability to do anything in a dream, they wouldn’t be able to handle some guy’s subconscious. It was like they weren’t even trying!
“His mind has trained defenses of men shooting at us with machine guns!”
“Let’s use pistols on them!”
“Why don’t we just dream up another weapon that is far more powerful?”
“Because that requires a larger budget than this film is capable of. We’d have to have additional effects and explosions, etc.”[/spoiler]

[spoiler] I thought it was pretty obvious why the team only chose to combat Fischers subconscious defenses in a basic way.  When more alterations are introduced into a subjects mind, the more aggressive the response to the intrusion will be.  By keeping a low key (mostly), the team managed to only attract a well-armed, but smaller defense force in the first layer of the dream.  Had they tried anything more obtrusive, the level of retribution would have probably been more severe (e.g. the entire subconscious revolting, Godzilla attack, etc).

[Kelkesh123]

My opinion of it.

[spoiler] The hand waving was necessary. I liked the rest of it.[/spoiler]

[clockworkjoe]

Let's set up a DG-verse Inception themed campaign

Premise: A MJ-12 sponsored organization is set up to test OUTLOOK developed dream sharing tech. The PCs are experts who brought in to field test the tech and use it to gather intelligence. They know nothing of MJ-12 or mythos.

Structure: First adventure sets up the premise and has the PCs run through a dream - a simple test subject - an American citizen suspected of leaking intel to an enemy for profit. The PCs have to figure out who. Run as a straight Inception style adventure. At the end throw in a single minor deviation - a hint of a world outside the target dream world or a cloaked figure in yellow in the distance. Just a simple hint.

Next few adventures are still Inception style dream heists but each one is more complex than the last - targets become terrorists in Gitmo, Russian mobsters, serial killers. PCs start developing minor problems - flashes of dream world intruding on real world, more foreshadowing of Carcosa and/or Dreamlands.

Then MJ-12 is satisfied that the PCs are capable of extracting intel on the target they've wanted to interrogate since the start of the program - a captured mythos sorcerer.

The sorcerer is from Tiger Transit, Special K, or Skoptsi - caught on unrelated charges but demonstrated enough weirdness that MJ-12's feelers caught wind. DG tried to take out sorcerer but MJ-12 whisked him away on the grounds that if DG wants to kill him, he must have something interesting to say.

OUTLOOK tries to dismantle the sorcerer but the sorcerer is already SAN 0 and has mythos magic. OUTLOOK is turned into something from a nightmare - staff members kill themselves or disappear - NRO teams fight off several alien intruders bent on rescuing the sorcerer.

MJ-12 needs to understand what makes this guy tick and what secrets he holds.

The PCs are sent into his dreams without warning - just to see what happens.

What happens next?

[Kroack]

some fucked up shit, no doubt.

Dreams of a mythos sorcerer?

That would be truly frightening.

SAN 0? I kind of imagine a beautiful panorama of breathtaking vistas degrading into infinite nothingness before the pc's eyes.

[Wooberman]

[spoiler]Woah! Quaduple Dreamstate All the way![/spoiler]