Author Topic: Kickstarter: Cool Stuff  (Read 300771 times)

Tim

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Re: Kickstarter: Cool Stuff
« Reply #225 on: August 25, 2014, 11:49:22 AM »
I can't wait for them to add a PDF option. 

Currently the options for me are.  Buy paper for to much, that that I then have to pay tax on as well when it gets to me and A. Scott Glancy will not make any profit because he (silly man) promises free shipping overseas.  Or I can kick in a few dollars for a small part in PDF.

I like don't like those options.  I just want to buy my PDF, skip the printing and shipping and give more money to the authors.

I am assuming the lack of a PDF option is a sore point with ASG and I made a point of not mentioning it to him at GenCon. I would also love one but it sounds like his co-author is dead set against it. My nightmare scenario is that the PDF does not appear and people bail out and defund the project. Hope that does not happen and a PDF is added but I have my concerns.

Gorkamorka

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Re: Kickstarter: Cool Stuff
« Reply #226 on: August 26, 2014, 04:03:35 PM »
Here is someone willing to sell PDFs.

Ars Magica 5th Ed is up on the Bundle of Holding.
Main book and 5 splats for less then 25 $. 

It's getting to be an expensive month.
Gorkamorka (Fridrik)

PirateLawyer

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Re: Kickstarter: Cool Stuff
« Reply #227 on: August 26, 2014, 04:15:57 PM »
Horrors of War is comfortably above its initial target so I have no qualms about the project seeing the light of day. I am perturbed however that the lack of a full PDF option at present is definitely a serious impediment towards any cool stretch goals that may be planned - the most obvious being a hardcover print run.

I don't really have much confidence that ASG's co-author will be swayed by the anecdotal evidence that a lot of people want a full PDF; if he's ideologically opposed to digital formats, we're all out of luck.

SageNytell

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Re: Kickstarter: Cool Stuff
« Reply #228 on: August 27, 2014, 09:55:20 AM »
I am assuming the lack of a PDF option is a sore point with ASG and I made a point of not mentioning it to him at GenCon. I would also love one but it sounds like his co-author is dead set against it. My nightmare scenario is that the PDF does not appear and people bail out and defund the project. Hope that does not happen and a PDF is added but I have my concerns.

I want this book to succeed, and I want to continue to purchase products from Pagan Publishing in the future, but that requires them to make reasonable business decisions. :/

Refusal to produce PDFs that have a much larger reach than physical products is lunacy in this day and age. Piracy is a concern, yes, but it's far overblown compared to the potential profits that an established company could be getting off of future sales on DriveThruRPG. It's one of the reasons why Delta Green books were so crazy expensive until they sent some in to be ripped apart and imaged; physical books are becoming more and more of a luxury item.

If they're looking to succeed on the kickstarter, they might do it with just physical books. If they're looking to succeed with future sales with new customers who were unaware of the Kickstarter, they're SOL unless Crowe can be convinced to change his mind.

Edit:
This is something I'm increasingly frustrated by with Kickstarters in general. The Kickstarter is not the be-all-end-all unless you're doing a ransom model, which this most definitively is not. It's to raise funds to create a successful product which can be sold after the campaign ends, not as a store. While a lot of RPG developers use KS as a very successful preorder system, it's much more similar to an early adopter program than a preorder. I can understand a lot of users getting this confused and making ridiculous demands of project runners, but more and more it seems like people are just running Kickstarters for the initial campaign and not planning out future revenue streams. This will only work with a ransom, or if the Kickstarter is just plain old fraud (google Confederate Express for a fun time).

It's me, I'm the cynic.  :(
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 10:08:06 AM by SageNytell »

Tim

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Re: Kickstarter: Cool Stuff
« Reply #229 on: August 27, 2014, 11:28:45 AM »
It is very clear that the lack of a PDF is a major hindrance to the kickstarter and long term a major hindrance to the sale of Pagan products long term. I suspect they would likely be double their current goal if a PDF was available at some reasonable level.

I personally just don't buy physical copies of games any more with exceptions. I did buy a few things at GenCon because it was GenCon but I often regret having a physical copy at this point for about 50% of my physical books (why did I buy those two physical copies of unspeakable oath for example). I even sort of don't like how kickstarter can 'force' you into a physical book because you are at a high reward tier. I would really love an option to say I want reward level X because of some extra content but don't actually want the physical book. I actually just started to give at a higher level for projects I want but selecting lower rewards tier. Wish I had thought of this for the Better Angels kickstarter actually. I have a desire to support arc dream at some level and wanted to read the book but now I have this hard cover of a game I have pretty much 0% chance of running.

I also think none of this is news to Mr. Glancy as he has always struck me as a sharp cookie. Sadly if his co-author is so intractable he only has two options. Deal with it or find a new writing partner and of course Mr Crowe is clearly a skilled writer and I assume a long standing friend of ASG so that second option is less than appealing.

Gorkamorka

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Re: Kickstarter: Cool Stuff
« Reply #230 on: August 27, 2014, 11:48:08 AM »
It is very clear that the lack of a PDF is a major hindrance to the kickstarter and long term a major hindrance to the sale of Pagan products long term. I suspect they would likely be double their current goal if a PDF was available at some reasonable level.

I personally just don't buy physical copies of games any more with exceptions. I did buy a few things at GenCon because it was GenCon but I often regret having a physical copy at this point for about 50% of my physical books (why did I buy those two physical copies of unspeakable oath for example). I even sort of don't like how kickstarter can 'force' you into a physical book because you are at a high reward tier. I would really love an option to say I want reward level X because of some extra content but don't actually want the physical book. I actually just started to give at a higher level for projects I want but selecting lower rewards tier. Wish I had thought of this for the Better Angels kickstarter actually. I have a desire to support arc dream at some level and wanted to read the book but now I have this hard cover of a game I have pretty much 0% chance of running.

I also think none of this is news to Mr. Glancy as he has always struck me as a sharp cookie. Sadly if his co-author is so intractable he only has two options. Deal with it or find a new writing partner and of course Mr Crowe is clearly a skilled writer and I assume a long standing friend of ASG so that second option is less than appealing.

I wrote a polite email to Mr. Glancy to pass on to his writing partner (Message on the Kickstarter site).  Were I stated that I would happily buy their product if I could do that as a PDF.  The I stated, again politely why I prefered the PDF to the paper product and how it saved them both printing and handling costs.

I hope that if they get enough of those polite emails they might add a PDF option.
Gorkamorka (Fridrik)

Tim

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Re: Kickstarter: Cool Stuff
« Reply #231 on: August 27, 2014, 12:05:22 PM »

I wrote a polite email to Mr. Glancy to pass on to his writing partner (Message on the Kickstarter site).  Were I stated that I would happily buy their product if I could do that as a PDF.  The I stated, again politely why I prefered the PDF to the paper product and how it saved them both printing and handling costs.

I hope that if they get enough of those polite emails they might add a PDF option.

That is totally the right way to do this and I think I will also write a similar message.

I do find some of the subtext to the comments in the kickstarter thread very unhelpful. Many are respectful saying they would be interested in a PDF (as would I) but a few gave me the sense that the comment author considered the project founders slack jawed yokels barely able to draw breath let alone understand the holy truth that offering a PDF would make them all the monies. Maybe I am reading too much into some of these comments but those ones don't seem to be helping.

PirateLawyer

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Re: Kickstarter: Cool Stuff
« Reply #232 on: August 27, 2014, 01:14:02 PM »
Tone and nuance can be really really hard to gauge on the big ol' Internet.

I do think some of the comments on the Kickstarter page come across as more than a bit whiny.

As stated above, ASG is a smart cookie and is likely making the best of it due to his co-author's resistance to keeping up with modern practice in the niche that is small press RPG publishing.

I'm old-fashioned; I like paper books. But I also like PDFs for convenience's sake. Personally I think given the quality of what Pagan has put out over the years the digital diehards would do well to think twice and back the project anyhow, because Pagan products are so good that they deserve precious shelf space. But people can vote with their wallets. I'm just glad the project is coming to fruition so I have the opportunity to give Pagan my money.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 05:01:41 PM by PirateLawyer »

Tim

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Re: Kickstarter: Cool Stuff
« Reply #233 on: August 28, 2014, 02:37:27 PM »
This is not my cup of tea as I am trying to have less stuff in my life but I figured some people on this list maybe interested in these coins.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/420090979/metal-gaming-coins-rpg-larping-cosplay-board-games

Example


PirateLawyer

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Re: Kickstarter: Cool Stuff
« Reply #234 on: August 28, 2014, 06:01:52 PM »
Well, the $32K stretch goal for Horrors of War is nuts (in a good way). If only the full PDF obstacle could be conquered, perhaps it would be within the realm of possibility and not completely unobtainable. Two books for the price of one would be sweet.

Tim

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Re: Kickstarter: Cool Stuff
« Reply #235 on: August 29, 2014, 11:18:09 AM »
Well Kicktraq has it trending to 35k. Will have to see how it plays out.

Claive

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« Last Edit: September 03, 2014, 06:59:57 PM by Claive »
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Re: Kickstarter: Cool Stuff
« Reply #237 on: September 08, 2014, 07:52:37 PM »
Well Kicktraq has it trending to 35k. Will have to see how it plays out.

My wild-ass guess would be that the Pagan kickstarter would easily make it to 32K and the awesome stretch goal of 2 books for the price of 1 if the full PDF option became a reality. As it now stands it does seem like the 20K stretch goal will be met without much trouble.

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Re: Kickstarter: Cool Stuff
« Reply #238 on: September 16, 2014, 04:11:56 PM »
Well Kicktraq has it trending to 35k. Will have to see how it plays out.

Given how restless the natives seem to be, I doubt Kicktraq will be all that accurate of a forecasting tool on this one. Mr. Glancy would do well to post an update ASAP.

Lordsloth

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Re: Kickstarter: Cool Stuff
« Reply #239 on: September 16, 2014, 04:24:39 PM »
I checked the kicktraq website yesterday(I think), and it had definitely cooled- trending towards only 24k...  :'(

It may go even lower, given the PDF sentiment. Pretty sad, considering it was looking like we could get the second book for free.
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