Scion and combat

[gambitraven]

Has anyone ran or played scion. I wouldn't mind trying to running it again. I just want to change combat. Rather the COMBAT WHEEL ugh.

Or maybe tips on dealing with the COMBAT WHEEL.

[Tadanori Oyama]

What's wrong with it aside from the unbalancing effects that come from high levels of Epic Wits? At Hero level it works fine.

[Addled GM]

I played a few games of Scion and we tried without the combat wheel.  It worked Okay but it quickly became apparent that the game is very reliant on it.  There were many instances in which the game simply screeched to a halt due to the utter brokeness that came from having a set init order and knowing when the opposition went. 

As a note Scion is great on paper.  It's a great idea with a great setting.  Then you get to playing the game and it's a whole lot less awesome.  The buckets of dice required as well as the rules exploits (and there were a few that broke the game very early on) make the game nearly unplayable.     

[Tadanori Oyama]

The buckets of dice required as well as the rules exploits (and there were a few that broke the game very early on) make the game nearly effectively unplayable.

Fix that for you.

As someone who has run a campaign of Scion from basic level Heroes to stupidly XP inflated Gods I can firmly say that Hero level game play worked just fine at my table. As soon as we crossed the line into Demigod, things started to got more difficult and at God tier the game is largely narrative in nature.

It's a strange game. As far as the rules go, it's stupidly, laughably broken. When you play with people who are willing to act in the spirit and themes of the game, then things can work out just fine. The game I was running was really only derailed when a specific player joinned the group and changed the focus by being a destructive asshole. Requiring players to ignore certain elements of the game or making drastic changes to the core rules makes it much easier and really proves how badly botched the game was.

They mostly aren't complex fixes. Most of them just require a simple change to scale. You can do pretty good just checking the Scion Wiki, lots of great house rules there. Makes the whole thing feel like it was very play-tested at all.

[EndersLegend]

Scion was one of those games that really could have gone well but, unfortunately came at the wrong time.  White Wolf's merger with CCP happened in November of 2006 and Scion Hero released April 2007. Most of Hero was finished before the merger so much of the editing and management decisions were done by White Wolf.  After that CCP seemed to have no fucks to give.

A lot of the WoD books suffered but so did Scion. There was no playtesting that I knew of. I am happy that everything has started to get back on track for WW. They are now Onyx Path and have a lot more oversight on their own stuff, including public playtesting and taking advice for content from the forums. Along with all the other awesome stuff we're getting now (God Machine Chronicles, Demon the Frutang, Exalted 3e), Scion is getting a second edition.

Really, most of the problems stemmed from CCP. They only acquired WW so that they could make the MMO, which is on hold again or at least it's not been updated for over a year. CCP was highly secretive about everything when it came to the books. Most of the time there was never a release date until it was released. Along with this there was no playtesting and from what I can tell they fired all of the editors. Don't believe me? Check out the original version of Geist. There's a 50 something page thread of nothing but errata for it on the WW forum.

[Twibbit]

Scion was one of those games that really could have gone well but, unfortunately came at the wrong time.  White Wolf's merger with CCP happened in November of 2006 and Scion Hero released April 2007. Most of Hero was finished before the merger so much of the editing and management decisions were done by White Wolf.  After that CCP seemed to have no fucks to give.

A lot of the WoD books suffered but so did Scion. There was no playtesting that I knew of. I am happy that everything has started to get back on track for WW. They are now Onyx Path and have a lot more oversight on their own stuff, including public playtesting and taking advice for content from the forums. Along with all the other awesome stuff we're getting now (God Machine Chronicles, Demon the Frutang, Exalted 3e), Scion is getting a second edition.

Really, most of the problems stemmed from CCP. They only acquired WW so that they could make the MMO, which is on hold again or at least it's not been updated for over a year. CCP was highly secretive about everything when it came to the books. Most of the time there was never a release date until it was released. Along with this there was no playtesting and from what I can tell they fired all of the editors. Don't believe me? Check out the original version of Geist. There's a 50 something page thread of nothing but errata for it on the WW forum.

They revealed more info on the MMO this month. at Eve Fanfest. they did not allow cameras because it is mostly proof of concept gameplay and did not want people thinking it was farther along than it was.

[EndersLegend]

Scion was one of those games that really could have gone well but, unfortunately came at the wrong time.  White Wolf's merger with CCP happened in November of 2006 and Scion Hero released April 2007. Most of Hero was finished before the merger so much of the editing and management decisions were done by White Wolf.  After that CCP seemed to have no fucks to give.

A lot of the WoD books suffered but so did Scion. There was no playtesting that I knew of. I am happy that everything has started to get back on track for WW. They are now Onyx Path and have a lot more oversight on their own stuff, including public playtesting and taking advice for content from the forums. Along with all the other awesome stuff we're getting now (God Machine Chronicles, Demon the Frutang, Exalted 3e), Scion is getting a second edition.

Really, most of the problems stemmed from CCP. They only acquired WW so that they could make the MMO, which is on hold again or at least it's not been updated for over a year. CCP was highly secretive about everything when it came to the books. Most of the time there was never a release date until it was released. Along with this there was no playtesting and from what I can tell they fired all of the editors. Don't believe me? Check out the original version of Geist. There's a 50 something page thread of nothing but errata for it on the WW forum.

They revealed more info on the MMO this month. at Eve Fanfest. they did not allow cameras because it is mostly proof of concept gameplay and did not want people thinking it was farther along than it was.

I'd heard about that but, again, that's what they did at The Grand Masquerade. It's a constant push back with CCP. They acquired the rights but, they don't want to set aside enough time and developers to do anything with it.  I understand EVE is their flagship but, WoD online is going to sink before it's maiden voyage if they don't get their act together a little bit.  Their engine, graphics, gameplay, etc will be outdated and they wont get the subscription numbers they're hoping for.

It's the problem with most MMOs. Bad execution and unrealistic expectations.  Same thing with most industries these days.  Marvel tried to release an RPG but when it didn't outsell D&D they said screw it and sold off the rights to Margaret Weis Productions, who has now decided not to continue to publish it.  Of course, the MWP system had its problems, namely the fear of 20 sided dice, and a lack of variety.