Author Topic: Cody Fan Club  (Read 703938 times)

Flawless P

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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #825 on: September 28, 2010, 04:11:43 PM »
[spoiler]Batman didn't kill Owlman because Owlman had enough time to disarm the bomb but chose not.

Also - Batman didn't know it would kill Quick - age him, sure but superheroes and villains take all kinds of crazy risks all the time. Tricking a villain into hurting or crippling himself is ok to Batman.  [/spoiler]

Quoted for truth...I totally agree

Also, Batman is a hard guy to find a good voice actor for.
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Seejo Crux

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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #826 on: September 28, 2010, 04:37:52 PM »
Also, Batman is a hard guy to find a good voice actor for.

Andrea Romano seemed to have no trouble.


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rayner23

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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #827 on: September 28, 2010, 05:02:13 PM »
Ross, I respectfully disagree with your stupid assessment.
I'm from Alaska. About Fifty miles south of Ankorage there's a little fishing town, maybe you've heard of it, it's called fuck your momma.

Flawless P

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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #828 on: September 28, 2010, 05:21:48 PM »
Also, Batman is a hard guy to find a good voice actor for.

Andrea Romano seemed to have no trouble.


Well come on now Kevin Conroy  is like the best voice you could ever have for Batman, besides that show was like the perfect alignment of the planets, EPIC. When I worked at Blockbuster I used to have to put fan debates down about Nicholson vs. Ledger.

My response was "Who cares? Neither one was even 1/10th of Mark Hamil."
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Zeriken

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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #829 on: September 28, 2010, 06:34:42 PM »
*Pokes* Cody, I sent a psn request >.>. Do you play any Demon's Souls?
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joecrak

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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #830 on: September 28, 2010, 06:40:36 PM »
Sorry Cody, but you are wrong on this Batman did not kill either of them, Both he and owlman knew that Owlman had more than enough time to disable the bomb, and his last line is vindictive of his character as a nihilist.

As for Batman and Johnny Quick, it was a definite gamble, but he had no way of truly knowing one would die.

Also....Batman has killed in the golden age, which was retconned, and tried to kill in the modern age, only prevented by the Reaper in year 2. He held no qualms when he held the same gun that murdered his parent up to Joe Chill and you could tell he was going to kill him if The Reaper had not beat him to the punch.

Another instance of Batman "killing" would be when he forcibly took superman away from the fight with Darkseid in the season 2 opener of Justice League season 2. Leaving Darkseid there on brainiacs exploding asteroid station and even commenting that no one could survive that.


As far as the voice thing goes, Yes Conroy will always be the best, but I like most of the voice actors that played him. They each bring something different and none of them has truly ever been terrible.  Like in Brave and the Bold Bader is great, just like Harmon was great in Under the Red Hood.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 06:44:36 PM by joecrak »
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clockworkjoe

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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #831 on: September 28, 2010, 09:45:23 PM »
Ross, I respectfully disagree with your stupid assessment.

I am sorry to hear that you and reality aren't on speaking terms.

rayner23

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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #832 on: September 28, 2010, 11:26:39 PM »
*Pokes* Cody, I sent a psn request >.>. Do you play any Demon's Souls?

I do indeed! I haven't played in awhile, but I used to quite a bit. Lemme know when you're up for a game of it.
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Wooberman

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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #833 on: September 29, 2010, 03:32:28 AM »
Okay I know Batman Begins isn't canon but When i think of the Batman vs Killing argument i'm reminded of his stand off in the train with Ras Al Ghul where he didn't kill him, but he didn't save him.

So are we saying that Inaction is as bad as Action?

P.s. I love Cody...

in a purely platonic way...

like a man loves a dog...

then gets arrested after a disgusted neighbor called the police.

rayner23

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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #834 on: September 29, 2010, 10:08:50 AM »
Okay I know Batman Begins isn't canon but When i think of the Batman vs Killing argument i'm reminded of his stand off in the train with Ras Al Ghul where he didn't kill him, but he didn't save him.

So are we saying that Inaction is as bad as Action?

P.s. I love Cody...

in a purely platonic way...

like a man loves a dog...

then gets arrested after a disgusted neighbor called the police.

Inaction is most definitely as bad as a willful act of murder. By saying that batman won't kill, but he doesn't ahve to save someone, that implies that he isn't morally culpable for their death. If he has the capability to save a life, then he is morally obligated to do so. If he can find another way to save the world without letting someone die, then he MUST do so because that is what heroes do. Heroes don't give up on even the most evil person because to do so would lower himself.

BTW

love you too, baby.
I'm from Alaska. About Fifty miles south of Ankorage there's a little fishing town, maybe you've heard of it, it's called fuck your momma.

Zeriken

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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #835 on: September 29, 2010, 11:18:50 AM »
*Pokes* Cody, I sent a psn request >.>. Do you play any Demon's Souls?

I do indeed! I haven't played in awhile, but I used to quite a bit. Lemme know when you're up for a game of it.

Sounds like fun. What Soul Level are you? Would you rather play with our current, or start out new characters?

If we do start out new characters, are you going to be playing a mage-class, or a warrior-class? (Mage build is best build, but I only have warrior class characters atm).

I have a Soul Level 152 character right now, Warrior Class w/ Fireball. He wields the Dragon Bone Smasher and the White bow as a secondary weapon.
Magadheera - Must find sub of this movie.

clockworkjoe

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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #836 on: September 29, 2010, 02:07:29 PM »
Okay I know Batman Begins isn't canon but When i think of the Batman vs Killing argument i'm reminded of his stand off in the train with Ras Al Ghul where he didn't kill him, but he didn't save him.

So are we saying that Inaction is as bad as Action?

P.s. I love Cody...

in a purely platonic way...

like a man loves a dog...

then gets arrested after a disgusted neighbor called the police.

Inaction is most definitely as bad as a willful act of murder. By saying that batman won't kill, but he doesn't ahve to save someone, that implies that he isn't morally culpable for their death. If he has the capability to save a life, then he is morally obligated to do so. If he can find another way to save the world without letting someone die, then he MUST do so because that is what heroes do. Heroes don't give up on even the most evil person because to do so would lower himself.

BTW

love you too, baby.

So soldiers are incapable of being heroes? They use lethal force as a rule.

After all, how heroic is it to give a Joker, Owlman or Lex Luthor a chance if they threaten countless lives with their actions?

What if saving the villain make it harder to stop them?

Say stopping a supervillain from committing genocide and using lethal force has a 50% chance of success while only using nonlethal force has a 25% chance of success. Is it heroic to use nonlethal force under those circumstances?

I think heroism is a broader concept than that very specific and narrow ideal. Certainly heroes in the real world don't use that definition.

After all, the current 'code of superheroes' is a product of the comics code and narrative necessity - killing off supervillains as the rule not the exception would cause a lot of problems - we wouldn't have iconic villains like the Joker or Lex Luthor because Superman would eyeball lazer them sooner or later.

rayner23

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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #837 on: September 29, 2010, 05:14:16 PM »
Okay I know Batman Begins isn't canon but When i think of the Batman vs Killing argument i'm reminded of his stand off in the train with Ras Al Ghul where he didn't kill him, but he didn't save him.

So are we saying that Inaction is as bad as Action?

P.s. I love Cody...

in a purely platonic way...

like a man loves a dog...

then gets arrested after a disgusted neighbor called the police.

Inaction is most definitely as bad as a willful act of murder. By saying that batman won't kill, but he doesn't ahve to save someone, that implies that he isn't morally culpable for their death. If he has the capability to save a life, then he is morally obligated to do so. If he can find another way to save the world without letting someone die, then he MUST do so because that is what heroes do. Heroes don't give up on even the most evil person because to do so would lower himself.

BTW

love you too, baby.

So soldiers are incapable of being heroes? They use lethal force as a rule.

After all, how heroic is it to give a Joker, Owlman or Lex Luthor a chance if they threaten countless lives with their actions?

What if saving the villain make it harder to stop them?

Say stopping a supervillain from committing genocide and using lethal force has a 50% chance of success while only using nonlethal force has a 25% chance of success. Is it heroic to use nonlethal force under those circumstances?

I think heroism is a broader concept than that very specific and narrow ideal. Certainly heroes in the real world don't use that definition.

After all, the current 'code of superheroes' is a product of the comics code and narrative necessity - killing off supervillains as the rule not the exception would cause a lot of problems - we wouldn't have iconic villains like the Joker or Lex Luthor because Superman would eyeball lazer them sooner or later.

Of course soldiers are heroes, and no, heroes in the real world don't use that definition, but when a character like Batman has been established as someone with a strict moral code where he doesn't kill, then he shouldn't kill.

Yeah, I know that in his first appearance he shot some crooks, but in the current incarnation, it has been established that Batman doesn't murder.

Example - Look at Identity Crisis, in that book, Alexander Luthor has messed with reality itself, caused the deaths of hundreds of people and Batman has a gun to his head ready to pull the trigger, but he doesn't because Wonder Woman stops him and tells him it's not worth it.

Should he have pulled the trigger? Well in the real world, yes he should have. But we're not dealing with the real world, now are we? We are dealing with an idealized world of superheroes and as such, they should act ideally and that means that all villains can be redeemed (except dark, evil gods like Darkseid that are the pure embodiment of death) and that heroes have to be ever hopeful that people can turn around and become good.

Even in Frank Miller's "Dark Knight Returns" Batman snaps the Joker's neck leaving him paralyzed, but not murdering him. I think this might be too far for Batman, but that was the point of the comic. He still isn't willing to go so far as to kill a murderer because that would make himself a murderer. After all, who is he to decide the fate of a man's life? He might bring people in because they have committed a crime, but he has no right to take a life.

Again, of course in the real world soldiers are heroes and in the heart of battle, they have to kill and no one can begrudge someone of doing that. Superheroes don't operate on the same rules because they are fiction and are held to a different standard.

Arguing that Batman should kill because it is "realistic" or somehow moral is like saying that Batman should age because he's getting older and real people get older. These characters are idealized fiction - they aren't supposed to reflect upon what is, but on what should be.

 
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 05:35:33 PM by rayner23 »
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Seejo Crux

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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #838 on: September 29, 2010, 05:17:39 PM »
killing off supervillains as the rule not the exception would cause a lot of problems - we wouldn't have iconic villains like the Joker or Lex Luthor because Superman would eyeball lazer them sooner or later.


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« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 05:28:18 PM by Seejo Crux »

joecrak

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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #839 on: September 29, 2010, 06:10:02 PM »
But Cody, you defend Batman killing Darkseid in Final Crisis!
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