Author Topic: Cody Fan Club  (Read 703795 times)

clockworkjoe

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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #840 on: September 29, 2010, 06:44:36 PM »
Those are good points with regards to Batman, but you generalized in your previous post 'heroes do this' and 'heroes don't do this'.

Batman's path is one type of heroic conduct and it's a complex path. I think his actions re: Owlman and Johnny Quick are consistent with his code.  After all, Batman is a world class martial artist. His hand to hand attacks have the potential to kill by mistake. One opponent with a hidden injury or illness or pre-existing condition could easily die from being punched in the solar plexus etc. He routinely puts the lives of his opponents at risk and it's only dramatic convenience that he doesn't cause collateral damage.

Flawless P

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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #841 on: September 29, 2010, 06:53:50 PM »
One could argue that pre-exsiting injuries would betray themselves to his trained eye.

Oh and also one of the more convient tropes of comics is that "Master" martial artists are so good they never risk killing anyone because their body control is so complete that they always know how much pressure they are putting and how much force they are using.

(The above opinion is just somthing I have mused about and is based no way on fact. Nor should it be applied to a realistic world, by all means it is ludacris, and very plot devicey)
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 06:55:48 PM by Flawless P »
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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #842 on: September 29, 2010, 07:00:33 PM »
But Cody, you defend Batman killing Darkseid in Final Crisis!


Of course and do I so for two reasons:

1) Darkseid is a god of death that is a pure force of evil. He has absolutely zero redeeming qualities because he is the god of evil itself. There is no redemption for him. Batman knew this and knew that he had absolutely no other choice but to shoot Darkseid. Technically, I was wrong about Batman killing him too because his goal was to merely poison Darkseid using the God Bullet. Batman wasn't going for a kill shot and that was my misinterpretation.

2) Batman using a gun at the end of his life was perfect because it brings his birth and "death" full circle symbolically.


I generalized my previous post about heroic actions because I assumed that everyone was going to use the same operational definitions of what superheroes do and not the overall idea of "hero." I suppose I should further specify that I mean human beings and not the sandwich "hero" although too many of those could lead to death as well.
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iceemaker

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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #843 on: September 29, 2010, 08:02:19 PM »
I dunno. I really want to contribute to the current conversation in a meaningful manner, but I cannot hope to conceptualize the term "hero".

On one hand, it's kind of silly to apply real-life expectations to comics. They are so larger-than-life that attempting to analyze comics outside their context seems quite fruitless.

On the other hand, if you cannot apply our standards to comics, what is the point of them, outside of escapist fantasy? Believe me, I love every aspect of nerd culture, including - though I have yet to participate in any meaningful way - comics. There is no doubt in my mind that all facets of nerdery can ignite our imaginations, give us hope and even comfort, and create bonds that transcend all boundaries.

But how can we hope to analyze comics in an academic manner? Video games? RPGs? The sheer relativety of experience for participants and occassional over-commercialization seem to be huge hurdles to me.

Or maybe I'm over-analyzing this. I have no idea what is going on.
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rayner23

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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #844 on: September 29, 2010, 08:28:04 PM »

But how can we hope to analyze comics in an academic manner? Video games? RPGs? The sheer relativety of experience for participants and occassional over-commercialization seem to be huge hurdles to me.


Pop culture analysis has been going on for quite some time now. There's nothing wrong with personal experience to shape academia. In fact, that's how academia works; my personal interpretation of a work based upon research shapes pop culture discourse.

Also, over commercialization isn't a factor either because if it were, then film studies wouldn't exist.

In my opinion, if something exists, then it can be analyzed because what is analysis but answering the questions: how did this thing come to be? What is it's relation to other things? Why is it significant?

In fact, I believe that there should be a full-fledged curriculum over the study of comics, video games, and RPGs and I shall call it; nerdagogy.

p.s. There is a really great website that looks at all forms of popular culture in really interesting ways. Check out http://www.popgunchaos.com
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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #845 on: September 29, 2010, 08:40:53 PM »
What a good debate.

Seejo Crux

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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #846 on: September 29, 2010, 09:18:02 PM »
My understanding of comic books is that the best heroes have the epic qualities that make them fantastic and interesting, but they also have very human qualities that make it possible for the reader to identify with them. It's easy to identify with farmboy Superman despite the fact that he's fucking God in tights. It's not so easy to do so with Wonder Woman, who by definition is hardly human at all... although the Circe-curse-of-transformation thing is supposed to help her feel mortal. Or something.

I would say a "hero" is just a man or woman who makes decisions in the interest of virtues and other things people consider 'good' - love, justice, honor, etc. Villains make decisions out of vice - selfishness being the most popular. "Super" heroes or villains are called such because they can affect huge changes with their decisions, but the types of decisions aren't all that different from their mundane counterparts.

In that sense, I think guys like Lincoln or Ghandi would be Super Heroes and guys like Hitler would be Super Villains, even if they don't wear tights. They aren't called such because "superheroes" refers to a genre nowadays. The word itself doesn't mean what it says.

Analyzing human-like superheroes is viable for the same reasons that people can and should analyze characters out of Shakespeare. People can learn a lot about the human condition by studying fictional characters, because those characters typically reflect the natures of real people.

I personally think a Code with Exceptions, be they one man's code or an entire nation's code, is not desirable but also a necessity. Even in things built on absolutes, like Mathematics, you have to account for edge cases. It's just a question of (1) how many edge cases you have, and (2) can you defend them logically. If you can, then it's okay to have them.

So I have no problem with a Batman or Superman that doesn't kill unless he has to. It's a human thing to do, and there's plenty of drama to be had by testing the limits of what such men are willing to do in (often contrived) circumstances. It makes me think of whether I would do the same thing or not. And I usually come out of the thought process knowing more about myself. Which is good!

Tangentially related: my favorite depiction of what a "real world" of superheroes would be like is the Rising Stars series. Good stuff.

Kroack

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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #847 on: September 29, 2010, 10:37:16 PM »
Lets take comic books seriously guys!

rayner23

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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #848 on: September 29, 2010, 11:30:24 PM »
Lets take comic books seriously guys!

We are. Where have you been?
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Flawless P

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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #849 on: September 30, 2010, 01:18:41 AM »
Lets take comic books seriously guys!

I totally am....
See.....



This is what happens when people take comics too seriously.

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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #850 on: September 30, 2010, 01:21:10 AM »
Lets take comic books seriously guys!
u mad bro?
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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #851 on: September 30, 2010, 02:19:34 AM »

Captain Super Thor? Wooooooah....

Seejo Crux

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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #852 on: September 30, 2010, 09:32:46 AM »
Lets take comic books seriously guys!

Let's take your mom seriously. (Ohhhhh...)

(That's all I got.)

We could talk about Ed Benes and all the cold showers he needs.



« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 09:38:36 AM by Seejo Crux »

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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #853 on: September 30, 2010, 02:39:16 PM »
I'll be in my bunk

Flawless P

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Re: Cody Fan Club
« Reply #854 on: September 30, 2010, 02:47:34 PM »
42.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
If you can't fix it with duck tape you haven't used enough.
I intend to live forever -- so far, so good.