Author Topic: Help me wean my group off 3.x DnD  (Read 17890 times)

Bowzachi

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Help me wean my group off 3.x DnD
« on: April 27, 2010, 12:59:21 AM »
My only exposure to RPGs thus far has been primarily DnD 3.5 onwards. I somehow ended up DMing a 3.x campaign that went all the way into lvl 30+ and got SEVERELY burnt out and disenchanted with that system. The party was a minmax nightmare mess, with a Decisive Strike Monk that falcon-punched the shit out everything, a Warlock/Ur-Priest with divine meta-magic that could cast divine spells, clone himself, and have each clone use eldritch glaive, One character who I can't even begin to remember what class it was because it was an abominable amalgamation of so many but had something to do with Bloodstorm Blade (basically attacked every possible thing within visible distance for disgusting damage), and a Bard red-shirt who was pretty much weak himself but could mind-control anything not immune to charm and made everyone else even more broken with bardic music combos. This was only just the characters themselves too, I don't even want to think about their cohorts and the ridiculous airship that they came up with. Oh and all the characters were evil except for the Monk who was neutral.

It was an unholy fuckfest.

I am not trying to hate on 3.x too much but personally I am much more than ready for a change of scenery, both to play and to run. Most of my current group is open to the idea of exploring other systems, and a few of them I've gotten to try and enjoy 4E, but there's this one stubborn guy (this guy played the Bard in the fuckfest campaign if you were curious) who swears by 3.x. He even turns his nose up at 4E, citing "lack of options and creative choices." This person has himself DM'ed and played much in the past, but with a different group with which I have no affiliation.

I guess I'm asking for a couple of things. If you guys have any suggestions for a new game; something cool, something different, I'd love to hear. I'm also asking for ways that you can cajole players to try something they haven't seen before.

As a last resort, I want to hear everyone's hard evidence, points against, and reasons why my group should quit DnD 3.x.  If you are afraid of starting fires, just PM your reasons to me, we'll have a nice chat I'm sure, I've already got a building laundry list of my own gripes.

Thanks

clockworkjoe

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Re: Help me wean my group off 3.x DnD
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2010, 01:44:43 AM »
as someone who has run an epic 3E campaign and is currently running an epic 4E campaign, there is absolutely no fucking comparison between them. 3E is BROKEN AS SHIT IN EPIC. I think this is due to the 3E design team not taking epic into account when they built the system so they just patched on some shit that they didn't think through later on.

4E was built from the ground up to accommodate epic level play so IT FUCKING WORKS.

Be an asshole. Tell them that you are only running 4E and if they want to play, they will roll up 4E characters. BAD GAMING IS WORSE THAN NO GAMING.

Show the asshole bard character builder and the crazy number of options available.


clockworkjoe

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Re: Help me wean my group off 3.x DnD
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2010, 01:45:47 AM »
this is the thing that pisses me off about 3E fans - they just ignore epic when defending 3E. No one can actually defend epic 3E because it's so fucking broken so 3E fans just pretend it isn't there.

Bowzachi

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Re: Help me wean my group off 3.x DnD
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2010, 02:07:33 AM »
Thanks for the reply Ross. I skimmed through some previous threads on here and I thought we might have a kindred hatred.

I am a very hateful person.

Seriously though, if we were going to try something outside of DnD editions entirely, do you have any suggestions? I've been wanting to try something horror-y lately, maybe in a modern setting.

Mckma

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Re: Help me wean my group off 3.x DnD
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2010, 03:10:31 AM »
Thanks for the reply Ross. I skimmed through some previous threads on here and I thought we might have a kindred hatred.

I am a very hateful person.

Seriously though, if we were going to try something outside of DnD editions entirely, do you have any suggestions? I've been wanting to try something horror-y lately, maybe in a modern setting.

I would recommend avoiding CoC as it does not sound like a good fit for your group (at least not at the moment).

clockworkjoe

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Re: Help me wean my group off 3.x DnD
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2010, 03:25:20 AM »
Hunter the Vigil is pretty cool. Try that.

If they are warhammer 40k fans try rogue trader

Call of Cthulhu has a different mentality than D&D - magic spells are bad for PCs, hording magc items is bad, running away is a good idea

That said, CoC is an awesome fucking game.

Oh and 1 last thing: there is one good version of 3E D&D: Iron Heroes.

Iron Heroes is fucking metal as shit and badass. IT IS FULL OF WIN.

Bowzachi

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Re: Help me wean my group off 3.x DnD
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2010, 03:49:59 AM »
Cool, thanks for the game suggestions. I've heard of Hunter the Vigil, but it's part of WoD isn't it? How is it different from WoD? CoC I don't think my group is quite ready for yet, but I'll look into Iron Heroes.

JonHook

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Re: Help me wean my group off 3.x DnD
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2010, 10:57:13 AM »
I am a HUGE Call of Cthulhu fan, so if you want to try something in a horror venue, please give it a try. CoC is a d100 system built on the premiss that your characters are equipped with a host of skills. The more characters you have with a variety of skills, the more apt your group will be to combat the evils.

If your group is interested in trying out some interesting rule sets, you might want to try Trail of Cthulhu. ToC uses the Gumshoe system. Your character's skill have a pool of points you can spend to get bonuses to your rolls. Also, in the Gumshoe system, your characters are almost guaranteed to find and collect the clues they need to solve the mystery. It's just how you use those clues that can make or break the game.

Pelgrane Press has several horror-based games that use the Gumshoe system, so you have a lot of choice if you guys want to check out a horror game. I know Ross is familiar with these games, since several of his actual plays are in these different systems. I only have ToC from Pelgrane, so if you have any questions about any of their other games I'm sure Ross should be able to chime in.
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ThnJonWasAZmbie

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Re: Help me wean my group off 3.x DnD
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2010, 11:27:03 AM »
Cool, thanks for the game suggestions. I've heard of Hunter the Vigil, but it's part of WoD isn't it? How is it different from WoD? CoC I don't think my group is quite ready for yet, but I'll look into Iron Heroes.

Hunter isn't really different than WoD.  The world of darkness is just a setting that all the other games are a part of.  Vampire, Werewolf, Hunter etc etc are just elements that make up the World of Darkness.  I find the hardest thing about trying to get my group to play a new system is that no one wants to buy the books.  The best advice I can offer for that is buy the book for yourself, make a reference sheet for rules that players will need to play the game and hopefully if they enjoy the game they will stop being bitches and buy the book.  As for horror, you can't get much better than CoC, but its not good for people with a Dungeons and Dragons mentality, especially 3.x.
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malyss

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Re: Help me wean my group off 3.x DnD
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2010, 12:20:31 PM »
What kind of gameplay does your group like?

You mention you were playing epic, but does that mean you were playing a standard dungeon crawl game with high level characters or were you playing epic in the sense that your group was part of world politics and was more social than combat?

I think that can influence which system you pick to move to.

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Re: Help me wean my group off 3.x DnD
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2010, 12:49:52 PM »
I've heard Synnibarr is a good system   :)
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Dogfish

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Re: Help me wean my group off 3.x DnD
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2010, 01:02:07 PM »
I've heard Synnibarr is a good system   :)

If you like pure fantasy you can't beat F.A.T.A.L.

ThnJonWasAZmbie

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Re: Help me wean my group off 3.x DnD
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2010, 01:49:20 PM »
I've heard Synnibarr is a good system   :)

If you like pure fantasy you can't beat F.A.T.A.L.

Yeah, these two games will definitely be the change your group needs.  If anything, after playing either of these they will surely appreciate 4th edition D&D
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Boyos

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Re: Help me wean my group off 3.x DnD
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2010, 02:10:32 PM »
I've heard Synnibarr is a good system   :)

If you like pure fantasy you can't beat F.A.T.A.L.

Yeah, these two games will definitely be the change your group needs.  If anything, after playing either of these they will surely appreciate 4th edition D&D

But the question is How much san are you willing to lose trying to teach 4 people the system?

ThnJonWasAZmbie

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Re: Help me wean my group off 3.x DnD
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2010, 02:14:42 PM »
I've heard Synnibarr is a good system   :)

If you like pure fantasy you can't beat F.A.T.A.L.

Yeah, these two games will definitely be the change your group needs.  If anything, after playing either of these they will surely appreciate 4th edition D&D

As much as it takes damn it! ;)

But the question is How much san are you willing to lose trying to teach 4 people the system?
Jumping off diving boards gives you the ability to make your rpg ring with authenticity.